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Internet Book of Shadows, (Various Authors), [1999], at sacred-texts.com
CELTIC WORKSHOP (Internet)
This is an Upload of the first Celtic Workshop on Druids, Oghams and
Divination. Each student was supposed to have already downloaded the
Library 16 files Oghamd.txt (A table of Ogham correspondences),
Fionnw.GIF ( A symbollic representation of Oghams in Circles.) and
Ogham.GIF (A picture showing exactly how each tree Ogham symbol looked.)
In additional to these files, messages were posted in the Section 15
message board for Ogham correspondence tables by Nigel Pennick, D.J.
Conway, John Matthews, Murray Hope, Douglas Monroe and Edric Thorsson.
A lot of information is contained in these files and messages and
is essential for fully understanding the workshop and discussion. I
recommend reading "The Celts" by Nora Chadwick for historical background
on the Celts as a people. I recommend John Matthews book "Celtic
Shamanism" and also Nigel Pennick's book "Magical Alphabets". More
complete discussions of many of these topics are found in those works.
Due to time constraints, All the prepared material did not get
presented during the Workshop. I have included it here in it's entireity
at the request of the participants and in the interest of completeness.
Before starting the Workshop, we engaged in informal conversation with
the first topic being the book "Life of a Druid Prince". Jehana asked
if I had read this book.
<Start of Workshop>
O'Dubh : Never read the book
Jehana : It's basically an archeological/anthropological study of...
one of those sacrificed humans they pulled out of a peat bog.
SUZAN : hello Jehana!
Jehana : with some interesting speculations as well.
Hello suzan.
Hail!
O'Dubh : I saw an article on it with pictures in Scientific American I
think.
Merry Meet Again Maiden!
Jehana : yes, i think they covered it there, too.
O'Dubh : looks like UFOs are the talk of the town tonight.
Jehana : And The Crone greets the Maiden!
SUZAN : there was a great TLC special on an archeological find like
that
Jehana : suzan is still here.
suzan?
SUZAN : geesh! there are 27 people in that room!
O'Dubh : yes it's a mad house over there
SUZAN : oh just lurking around a bit sorry :)
O'Dubh : I didn't get any advertising here.
Jehana : too busy to stay there. <g>
O'Dubh : had to do it all myself.
Jehana : rilla mentioned it to me when i logged in tonight.
O'Dubh : everytime I log on here I'm bombarded with announcements
but no Celtic Workshop!:(
Hi Susan W!!
Jehana : hey, celtic workshop!!
Susan W.: Hi, just nosey, what's going on?
Jehana : hello susan...
odubh is about to do a celtic ../.
druidic workshop.
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O'Dubh : We're gonna be talking about Celts, Druids and the like
Jehana : is it workshop or discussion or both?
Susan W.: Maybe I'll listen in for awhile, already been on over anhour.
O'Dubh : I know how expen$ive it is!<G>
Jehana : same here.
O'Dubh : Well I guess I'm gonna start
Susan W.: What can I learn here?
O'Dubh : You can learn Magick, Shamanism, Oghams, Divination
But it won't happen overnight.
Also Druid type stuff.
There's a lot to cover.
Jehana : (But it doesn't all require connect time) <g>
O'Dubh : that's right
A lot of the files are in the library or message boards
any way Maybe I should start.
Jehana : ga
O'Dubh : I'm going to upload the announcement first so you can see what
we'll cover.
Susan W.: great
O'Dubh : Dia dhuit, a Kheltoi is ni Kheltoi!
(Hello to all Celts and Non-Celts!)
We are going to be having on-going Work Shops regarding Celtic
Topics of Interest here in the NewAge Forum. I hope to draw
you Celts and NonCelts alike out of the Groves and into the
CO's!<G> Time to share some of that Knowledge we've been
hiding!
I plan to touch on the following topics of interest:
CLASS #1
Druids, Oghams, Divinations
CLASS #2
Deities, Shamanism, Magick
CLASS #3
History, Warriors, Geneologies (maybe your family name!)
CLASS #4
Languages (Gaeilge, Gaelic, Welsh, Manx,Breton),
Poetry, Prose
I will basically upload files to the library, prior to the
class, to provide a focal point for the discussions and a
framework for building a Celtic Book of Shadows. We will
flesh these frameworks out through discussions online. I,
by no means, have all the answers on matters Celtic.
But I truly believe that ALL of us, working together, can
approach advance our knowledge and rediscover the True Celtic
Way.
Druids are especially welcome to attend so that our Celtic
Knowledge may be "Illuminated"!<G>
I also hope that The Welsh Bards will grace us with the Songs
of Taliesin.
Other topics will be included based upon the desires and
direction of the students and other participants.
I see the way that the workshops will be conducted as:
Susan W.: ?
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O'Dubh : Opening Remarks by Me.
Presentation by a Speaker (not necessarily me).
Questions and Answers.
Group Open Discussion and Discovery.
Summation and Assignments.
The classes start this Monday night in Work Shop 1 of the
NewAge
Forum at 10 PM EST! See you there!<G>
Beannacht leat,
(Blessed be)
O'Dubh
Susan W> ga
Susan W.: Oh, sorry, thought my screen was stuck there. GA
O'Dubh : OK That was the announcement and sorry if it was wrapping on
your screens!<G>
Jehana : sorry, i do have to go; i will put this workshop on
next monday's calendar.
O'Dubh : I'll continue with the presentation
Ce'ad Mi'le Failte! (100,000 Welcomes)
Welcome to the Celtic Workshop!
We will be investigating and sharing our knowledge
of matters Celtic here.
It is my hope that the researches and references
I have will add to or compliment your own.
I am, by no means, the final authority on
these matters.
Discussion and interaction, coupled with a
shamanistic journey or two should fill in
the gaps and illuminate us all.
all
Dean : hello
O'Dubh : Tonight I hope to lay down a firm framework
for our knowledge of Druids through a
discussion of their Magickal writing,
called Ogham, after Ogma - Sun Face,
and through a discussion of their divination
techniques.
It is commonly thought that the Druids left
no written records of their work.
I disagree.
Many references exist that contain the
poems of Druids, stories about their Magicks,
tales of their strategies, their secret lore,
their Oghams, their invocations, their victories
and their defeats.
The major problems with using this information
is that it is the product of a long
(tho reliable) oral tradition that was finally
written down by their antecedents the Culdean
Monks of the Celtic Church.
(Probably Druids in hiding).
Some of the Irish manuscripts
used as references on Druids are:
The Book of Armaugh
The Book of Ballymote
(A primary source for Oghams)
The Tain Bo Cuailgne
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The Book of the Dun Cow
The Book of Invasions
The Book of Leinster
Many references to what Druids did
are contained within the above books.
Much of what Celts wrote was symbollic
of deeper meanings. Each work can
be interpreted on many levels.
In modern times, Druidry is being studied
by several major groups, ADF and OBVD to
name just two.
If we have any Druids present tonight,
Please come forth and identify yourselves now.
(well, since only us chickens are here!<g>)
Susan W.: .
O'Dubh : I'll identify myself as a student of Wicca, Druids and Celts
Susan W>Whatis your interest or area?
Susan W.: I have no knowledge in this area . .
I have been told a little bit by a friend.
The extent . . .
is that I understand this Wicca, Druid beliefs,
are very old and are based on the powers of the earth?
ga
O'Dubh : yes the knowledge of Druids/Wiccans is based upon the Earth
and
it's power.
The knowledge of the Oghams is tree knowledge applied as
symbols
in the use of Magick and Divination.
I'll upload some info on each symbol
or group of 5 symbols and show what their
meanings are.
The Druids were the shamans of the Celtic
Clans. They carried the history, the culture
and the geneologies of the Clan in their memories.
To aid in remembering this information,
Oghams were used, each Ogham being
associated by its beginning sounds
with the item to be remembered. This
is similar to alliteration in today's
writings.This led to an entire series of
different types of Oghams.
Tonight we will discuss tree oghams and Fionn's Wheel.
Ogham BTW is pronounced "O Wam".
It's one of those strange Gaelic things!<G>
I have listed the Oghams for
those of you that haven't
downloaded the Ogham GIF's
or the Ogham Divination files
in Library 16 yet.
Each Ogham is listed by its
ancient Gaelic name, then its
modern Irish name and then its
Welsh counterpart.
The first group of 5 is from the
North on Fionn's Wheel.
(it is from the Book of Ballymote)
7th century Irish manuscript.
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Susan W.: .
O'Dubh : Beth Beith Bedw Birch - The White Tree of Purification
Protection against harm, physical and spiritual.
Deal with/clear away the bad things of life.
A new begining. Peasant. 24 December-20 January. White.
Luis Caorthann Criafol Rowan - Tree of Life
Protection against psychic attack.
Develop powers of protection and foretelling.
Used in Metal dowsing.
Planted around stone circles. Peasant
21 January-17 February. Liath (grey).
(also luisne or "red glare").
Fearn Fearno'g Gwernen Alder - "The Red Man"
(pranksters, also help one escape the Otherworld)
Used in fires to make swords.
Frees the Earth from water. Used in Building
Foundations because of this fire aspect.
Protection in conflicts.
Freedom from binding Magicks. 18 March-14April.
Crimson or blood red.
Saille Saileach Helgen White Willow or Sally Tree -
The growth of lunar power and water.
Linking and harmonizing. It's power is greatest
at night unless the Moon is visable during the day.
Susan W.: ? O'D
O'Dubh : Tied to the Moon phases.
Protection against diseases. Peasant. 15 April-12 May.
Sodaith (Bright or fine).
Nuin Fuinnseog Onnen The Black Ash - The Tree of Rebirth
Links the World of Spirit to the physical.
The passage way between the inner world and the outer realms.
The keys to the future but only in time.
First Chieftan Tree. 18 February-17 March
Necht or clear in color.
Yes Susan W? (I actually heard Susan W and responded at this
point but have included the other uploaded information here
for completeness).
Huath Sceach gheal Ysbyddaden -
The Hawthorn or Whitethorn
The May Tree. The name means "Terrible"
referring to the Destroyer aspect of the Goddess.
Unlucky (especially to cut it except in May).
(Bringing the blossoms in the house is also unlucky).
Rags are tied to its branches as offerings.
Protection against all ills Magickally.
Peasant. 13 May-9 June. Purple (For the Hag/Underworld).
Duir Dair Derwen Oak - The King of Trees
The Oak King. Magickal strength.
The doorway to inner knowledge.
The ability to see the invisible or be invisible.
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The ability to bar or open the ways.
10 JUne-7 July. Black. Chieftan.
Planted in Sacred Groves by the Druids.
Tinne Cuileann Celyn Holly - "Fire"
The Holly King. Balanced Strength and Power.
Unification, Fatherhood, Rebirth.
Fire, strength, boldness.
Peasant. Temen (grey-green).
Coll Coll Collen Hazel -
"By the Power of Three Times Three"
Discovery, Druidic Herald wands "Word Wisdom".
Used as A Magick Shield in warfare (Fionn's Shield).
Water Witching forked rods.
Nut-Brown.
Quert Aball Afall Crab Apple - Tree of Eternal Life
Isle of Avalon. Five seeds/blossom petals.
Apple-green or Mouse-Brown.
Muin Muine Vine - "The Vernal Equinox"
"The First Harvest".
Chieftain, 2 September- 29 September.
Mbracht (variegated).
The Magickal ability to roam widely and to gather.
Assimilation leading to inner development.
Gort Eadhne'an Eiddew Ivy - "The Second Harvest"
30 September - 27 October. Gorm (blue).
scarcity in unfavorable situations.
Changes necessary for growth.
All things are tied to the Earth.
Transformation by being rooted in the Earth.
Ngetal Giolcach Cawnen Reed - "The Tree of Scribes"
Used to make pens and Welsh plagawd (paper).
28 October - 24 November.
Thatching, mats, baskets.
Insulation, Enclosure, Covering.
Preserver of Knowledge, Maintainer of Order.
Nglas (glass green or yellowish-green).
Straif Drai'on Draenenwen Blackthorn -
"Tree of Punishment and Strife"
Peasant. Staves of Magickal Power.
Draoi (Wizard), Drai' (Druid).
Power in Visible and Invisible Worlds.
Use to overcome resistance to One's will.
Sorcha (bright colored) or purple-black.
Ruis Trom Ysgaw Elder -
"Tree of the Cailleach (Hag)"
ru'isce (a violent attack, a blow, a throw).
Irish Witches rode Elder sticks instead of brooms.
Three fold aspects of Time, Existence, Goddess.
Ogham of Timelessness or unity of all time.
Balance in threes. Rocnat (roebuck red).
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Susan W.: How would you use this information, for example . . .
the Native Americans use prayers for certain rituals, such as
blessing your surroundings.
How would you use that infor.?
Ga
O'Dubh : The information would be used
in divinations and in casting spells.
It would also be used to mark pathways for Spiritual journeys
into the Celtic Otherworld.
The first use of Oghams was on Birch, for instance,
and it was interpreted by the Irish God Lugh to mean
that a Magickal attack was going to be made
upon his wife.
Freepowder: hi all
O'Dubh : He took precautions.
Hi Freepowder !! we are underway with our workshop.
Freepowder: I didn;t miss it?
O'Dubh : I'm just telling Susan how Ogham information was used.
It's happening right now.
Anything missed will be in the library.
Freepowder: out standing, but I can't stay long<sigh>
O'Dubh : Susan>Does that answer your question?
Freepowder: GA
Susan W.: So, he called upon the spirit of the Birch tree to protect
him???
O'Dubh : He used the Magick of the Birch symbol to protect him and
his wife. Birch was used to surround them and protect them
from Magickal attack. Lugh's wife was in danger of being
spirited away to the Underworld.
Freepowder: (sorry) who are we talking about?
Susan W.: Gottcha. :) Difference in interpretation. GA
O'Dubh : The Celts were also shamanistic just like the Native Americans
Ok
Susan W.: ?
O'Dubh : FP>We are talking about the use and meaning of Oghams and
symbols of Magick.
FP>GA
Freepowder: in general?
O'Dubh : Well I'm presenting the meaning for each Ogham as based upon
the information handed down by the Irish Druidic Bards.
Misty : Can you tell us a little about the shamanistic part of the
Celts?
Freepowder: ah!
O'Dubh : Misty>I will cover that more fully next week but....
the Celts lived close to nature as did most peoples
O'Dubh : in the past. They observed that they had to interact with
it on a more personal basis than we do today.
I am introducing symbols and diagrams to be
O'Dubh : used in Magickal journeying.
Misty : Ok, sounds good!!
Freepowder: O'd> the Celts focused mainly on Trees & shrubs, while the
NAIndians,
Freepowder: focused more on animals , right?
O'Dubh : FP>The Celts tied Oghams to everything...
Birds, animals, shields, flowers you name it!<G>
Freepowder: !
O'Dubh : They even had a secret Hand Language<G>!
GA
3136
Misty : I've heard of that...how was that used?
Freepowder: <aside> sounds like modern gang!>...
Ogham was used like runes or tarot?
ga
O'Dubh : FP>one of the messages I posted has a direct correllation for
Oghams and TArot!
Susan W.: ?
Freepowder: I missed it, been a heavy wkend<abashed> GA
O'Dubh : It's in Section 15.
Susan >GA
Susan W.: I had someone give me a shamanistic (N.Amer.) style
drumming experience. ..
in which I saw the trunk of a very large tree . .
with a section that you could walk into . . .
like the old forest located S. of Yosemite . . . what are
those
called again. ? Anyway GA
Any meaning to that vision? O'D?
Sequoia . that's it.
O'D> GA
SUZAN : O'D is having some trouble with his connection.......
he will be right back.....
Susan W.: ok
I'm probably gonna split in a few . . . been on almost 2hrs.
SUZAN : thanks for being patient
Susan W.: What are your interests again Suzan?
SUZAN : i am an astrologer
Freepowder: Suzan> by the look of it we have just got started w/ this,
right?
Susan W.: Hi O'D
Freepowder: welcome back O'D
O'Dubh : Sorry about the line going down!<G>
Thanks guys!
Freepowder: Mercury is retarded<G>
O'Dubh : So where were we?
Freepowder: Sequoyah in vision
Susan W.: Did you get I saw trees in a vision?
O'Dubh : FP!>LOL probably what the prob is!<G>
Freepowder: GA<G>
O'Dubh : Susan>Yes
Susan W.: Any importance?
O'Dubh : I was telling how Celts/Druids
saw all of life interconnected like the Oak limbs
I believe your vision is telling you
to look within yourself to see how
you connect to the life around you
perhaps you should go on a shamanistic journey.
Freepowder: ?
O'Dubh : Discover your inner truths.
FP> ga
Freepowder: Shamanistic Journey?...
you mean like a vision quest?
Misty : Did we lose him again?
O'Dubh : Yes FP but along definate paths
Susan W.: O'D> celtic style?
O'Dubh : let me continue and I'll show you the map.
Freepowder: GA
O'Dubh : Susan>Definately Celtic style if that is what you feel closest
3137
to.
Susan W.: Actually more N.Amer. style :)
O'Dubh : Native American style is nice but I am a Celt.
Susan W.: Tell me your way.
O'Dubh : Watch and see !!
they (the ways) may be closer than you know!:)
Freepowder: <watching><G>
O'Dubh : Ok I'm going to skip the Ogham meanings and go straight to the
Wheel of the journeys.
This is Fionn's wheel and is a GIF in Lib 16.
<now uploading path names>
Fionn's Wheel is a diagram found in the Book of Ballymote.
It shows all 25 Oghams arranged around a series of concentric
circles (in library 16 as fionnw.gif). This diagram can be
used to divine paths necessary for "Pathworking", a very
powerful shamanistic technique. I have identified the meanings
of each Ogham on the paths (using the correspondences from
Nigel Pennick mostly). Each Ogham's meaning can require at
least a workshop of it's own to fully cover. I offer these here to show what can be done with Oghams:
An Roth de an Bealach
(The Wheel of the Ways)
___________________________________
Each path will be identified with it's Gaeilge/English name
and the elements along the Ways.
The Northern Path is first.
(from outside to inside)
___________________________________
An Cosa'n do Sla'n
(The Way of Protection)
The White Tree of Purity
The Tree of Life
The Red Man
The Moon
The Keys to the Future
___________________________________
This is the first path on Fionn's wheel
0jim : hellod
O'Dubh : It contains the first 5 Oghams B L F S N
jim : hello
O'Dubh : This path is first because it teaches the new
student how to protect him/herself from Magickal harm.
HELLO jIM
Please standby
jim : ok
O'Dubh : this is a formal Workshop
But join in !!!
Any way, the first step was Purification,
followed by gaining an ally in "the Red MAn",
a being kind of like Coyote in Native American workings.
The tree of life is there as well
(this could be what Susan saw in her dream)
The Moon represents the protection of the Goddess
When the inner level is reached
the student gains the keys of knowledge
3138
but not the wisdom to use them.
Another journey must be made.
That is the next path.
___________________________________
O'Dubh : This Path contains the Ogham EBA:
An Roth de an Bealach
(The Wheel of the Ways)
___________________________________
An Cosa'n de Fe'ile
(The Way of Ritual)
The Sacred Grove (Imbolc)
___________________________________
This path requires an understanding of
the major Religious festivals of the
Celtic year begining with Imbolc,
The new beginings
The festival of Brigit.
Susan W.: !
O'Dubh : It also requires one to perform such a ritual
Susan>ga
Susan W.: O'D & all> sorry, but I gotta go. Thanks for the info.
jim : !
O'Dubh : Susan> ok I'll continue and upload all this into the library.
B*B
jim>ga
Susan W.: THanks, I'll check into it. Bye.
jim : Thanks for the insight to PAGANISM. Get out of this stuff!
Freepowder: ?
O'Dubh : jim>not sure what you mean?
jim : !
O'Dubh : jim>ga
jim : you know! Druids, Pagans, Witches, stuff like that
Misty : Get out???
jim : !
Scott : uh oh.
O'Dubh : JiM>We are Druids, Pagans, Witches and stuff like that.
jim : !
O'Dubh : You are well to listen in to the workshop.
Jim>standby just a second.
FP has a question
FP>ga
Freepowder: I thought Samhain was the beginning of the Celtic year?
ga
O'Dubh : FP>It's the begining of the Celtic year but not necessarily
the begining of the study of Celtic religions.
ga
Freepowder: ?
O'Dubh : FP>ga
Freepowder: Imbolc...
is the start of this path of wisdom?...
or study on fionn wheel, right?
O'Dubh : FP>The study of all the major festivals is the second path
The symbol is actually the Grove.
The most powerful Magick in the Druid rites
Freepowder: ah!
3139
O'Dubh : was The victory of life over death,
the renewal of the wheel of the year,
the marriage of the Crone to the Oak King or Cernnunos.
That would not be an appropriate start point for begining
the study of Druidic Magicks. (Before a student can begin
Magickal work, the ability to shield and protect oneself
must first be developed. This is why the first way studied is
the way of protection. The next step to performing or learning
occult wisdom would be in a protected environment, such as rituals or Circles. What better ritual for a fresh start than
Imbolc which is symbollic of New Beginings and the Quickening
of Life? Samhain is actually the end point of the year and
represents the culmination of the Druidic Mysteries.
Jim>I believe you had a question?ga
jim : not really
O'Dubh : ok
jim : just watching and laughing
O'Dubh : any other questions?
Scott : ?
Misty : So are you saying that Winter Solstice is the beginning of
the wheel?
O'Dubh : Jim>I suggest that you watch your behavior
since the forum has some strict rules about
jim : ?
O'Dubh : putting down what others believe.
Jim>ga
jim : i'm not putting you down, just enjoying the show
O'Dubh : Jim>Are you done?
or do you have a question?
jim : 1!
?
O'Dubh : Jim>ga
jim : soo sorry if i offended anyone, didn'y mean to
got to go
O'Dubh : Goodbye jim
now to continue
Freepowder: Slan leat J
Scott : ?
O'Dubh : the next path to aid us in becomming more enlightened is the
Eastern path on the wheel.
Misty : What about my question? Or did someone beat me to it?
******** Answer inserted by O'Dubh ****************
(I completely missed Missy's question in all the confusion.
The answer to Missy's question is that Samhain is the begining
and the ending of the Celtic year. It is the time when the God
of the Underworld marries the Crone aspect of the Goddess. The
new God or the Sun is not yet reborn until the Winter Solstice. The Celts began their days at sundown. It is not surprising that they began their new year with the end of the last harvest. The period between Samhain and Imbolc is the dark part of the year and is therefore like the night before the day. During this period preparations were made for the onset
of winter and the coming spring planting.)
******************************************************************
Michael : Whats up tonight?
jim : eexit
3140
O'Dubh : Scott>ga
jim : eexit
O'Dubh : Jim> try /exit
jim : thanks
Scott : O'D did you say you were going to upload this lecture? I
would really like to D/L it, but have to go to bed...
O'Dubh : Scott>Yes I will and will add notes as I go !<G>
Slan leat!
Blessings
Scott : Any idea what the file name will be? <G>
O'Dubh : It'll be celtws1.txt
Freepowder: byer
Scott : thanks for your time, Blessed Be.
O'Dubh : Pressing on here and watching the clock.
<g>
O'Dubh : This Path contains the next 5 Oghams H D T C Q:
An Roth de an Bealach
(The Wheel of the Ways)
___________________________________
An Cosa'n do Fios
(The Way of Wisdom)
The Cailleach
The Oak King
The Holly King
The Three Times Three
The Tree of Eternity
___________________________________
O'Dubh : This Path contains the Ogham OI:
An Cosa'n do Gra'
(The Way of Love)
The Spindle of the Wheel (Beltaine)
___________________________________
******** Additional Data inserted by O'Dubh **************
O'Dubh : This Path contains the next 5 Oghams M G NG STR R:
An Cosa'n de Deis
(The Way of Balance)
The First Gathering
The Second Harvest
The Tree of Scribes
The Tree of Punishment
The Triple Goddess
___________________________________
O'Dubh : This Path contains the Ogham UI:
An Cosa'n de an Fhi'rinne
(The Way of Truth)
The Ancient Knowledge (Lugnasadh)
3141
The Inner Mysteries
___________________________________
O'Dubh : This Path contains the next 5 Oghams A O U E I:
An Cosa'n de an Saol
(The Way of Life)
The Tree of Regeneration
The Tree of Continuous Fertility
The Morning Dew
The Preventer of Death
The Tree of Life and Death
___________________________________
O'Dubh : This Path contains the Ogham AE:
The Way between the Worlds
The Sea (Samhain)
**********End of inserted data ***************
I will cover all of these and their meanings in the next
Workshop, next Monday.
Freepowder: ?
O'Dubh : I'm putting them here to give everyone a chance to read and
study them.
FP>ga
Freepowder: A bit off the Subj...
if you find the time could you help with...
Gaelic Pronounciation?
<G>
O'Dubh : FP>Sure will and I'll put notes in the upload as well.
Freepowder: thanks!
Rilla/Sysop: Hi all!
O'Dubh : I'm going to type the rest of the paths in now to speed things
up.
Hi Rilla!
Freepowder: Hi rilla, Dai dhuit
Rilla/Sysop: Dai dhuit!
Did you learn what that meant ???
O'Dubh : Rilla>It means Hello.
Rilla/Sysop: Just stopping bye to tell y'all goodnight!
and hugs!
O'Dubh : Gang I see that we will have to continue next week
It's late and we still have about 2 hours to cover.
Freepowder: ?
Misty : I hate that.
O'Dubh : I will post the rest of my lecture on the section 15 message
board.
FP>ga
Freepowder: what time does this start?...
and will it be in the Co notices?
O'Dubh : It starts at 10 PM Est.
Yes it should be.
I have to get Rilla to do it.
Freepowder: 7 PST<scratching head>
O'Dubh : I was surprised it wasn't.
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FP>that's right
7PM PST.
Freepowder: numbers hate me<G>
O'Dubh : I know
I appreciate everyone being here.
Misty : No prob..
O'Dubh : Next time we''ll cover how to make a shamanistic journey using
the Oghams and Fionn's Wheel.
Misty : See ya next time or probably sometime during the weekend.
Freepowder: O'D, I appreciate you taking the time to put this on!
O'Dubh : Beannacht leat!<blessed be!>
Thanks everyone!
Hugs!
Slan
Freepowder: Sl'n leat!
Misty : Night....*B*B*
Freepowder: well, who's left?
................................................................................
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What follows is the rest of My presentation concerning divination:
O"Dubh : Western (read Druidic) meditation was usually done
for divination and foretelling the future.
This was called by the names: Tenm Laida, Dichetal
Do Chennaib and Imbas Forosna.
Tenm Laida (Illumination by Song) is an altered state
usually achieved by chanting or singing of a repetitive
pattern. This can also include drumming and dancing.
These activities synchronize the body and mind to
an external rhythm allowing us to cast off the chains
of normal existence.
This allows one to float at peace within the song
(dance, beat, mantra, etc.) This is a strictly Druidic
or Shamanistic practice even though it may look like TM.
Dichetal Do Chennaib (Cracking open the Nuts of Wisdom)
is a state achieved by relaxation and clearing the mind
in a Ritual environment. It usually involved using some
Magickal implement such as a knife, a sword or a staff
to touch a subject (usually upon the head) or involved
the handling an item so that the diviner could discover
what secret knowledge was contained within it.
This information could be events from a person's past life,
a detailed history of who and what had happened to an object
or how and why the subject was being hexed or spelled.
I know this sounds like ESP but it was enhanced through
Ritual and relaxation techniques. I believe that Dichetal
Do Chennaib is the proper state for performing Ogham
divinations as well. More on this later.
Imbas Forosna (Illumination) was a form of altered state
used by seers and bards to create or see visions.
The Druid would be totally isolated from all sensory inputs,
sounds, lights and feelings. This was usually a very
dark room or a covering of hides. The Druid would attempt
to float and relax. When in the proper state he/she would
signal for the hides to be removed or he/she would open
the door out of the Darkness. The sudden, instantaneous
transition from Darkness to Light would cause him/her to see
visions or to spontaneously utter poems, prophecies or to
achieve a total Awareness of the secret Knowledge of
their Surroundings. This sensory deprivation forced oneness upon
them and caused them to become centered and to float. It was
their Ultimate Meditation technique.
The Druids also used music, colors, trees and numbers to alter
their consciousness. They were familiar with the Pythagorean
Mysteries and may have actually been the source of them!<G>
Druids shared IndoEuropean roots with the Indian Brahmans but
I don't have any hard data to support any similarities in their practices.
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O'Dubh : To perform an Ogham divination , one must be clear about the
purpose or object of the divination before begining. Focus this
purpose in your mind before starting meditation and/or Circle
casting. I find that working within a Magickal Circle tends to
prevent outside psychic influences but don't believe it's
absolutely necessary to use a Circle. The form of divination
is Dichetal Do Chennaib.
What we will be doing is casting sticks or "fews" upon a casting
cloth. The sticks are about finger length and size and carved
with Oghams for each of the 25 symbols. (I prefer to work with
woods that are the actual symbols used for each Ogham where
possible.
Obviously, some "Crane Bag" symbols are not trees and will have
to be carved on some neutral wood or other substance, shells or
rocks for instance. I use Ash or Oak for any substitutions.)
The casting cloth is a representation of Fionn's Wheel and can
be multicolored (as in the GIF), plain (Black and White) or just
drawn on the floor or ground. I like to make the largest Circle
about my height (in my case 6'2" but use what is suited to you).
I orient the Wheel with the "B" Ogham to the North. I stand on
the South side of the Wheel facing North about 3 feet back from
the "M" Ogham. Place the Oghams in a bag and then randomly
select 7 of them. Close your eyes, spin around three times while
blanking your mind from everything but your purpose. At the end
of the third spin toss the 7 "fews" into the air about 3 feet
above your head and towards the center of the Wheel. Once they
have settled out immediately read the arrangement of the sticks
as a general impression only. Write this down. Also record the
relative orientations and postions of the "fews" upon the Wheel.
Pick up the cast sticks and return them to the bag. Repeat this
process twice more so that a total of three readings is
available.
O'Dubh :You should now have three Wheel/Ogham Divination charts that
have the relative positions of 21 Oghams on them. Interpret the
Oghams based upon the correspondences I referenced previously.
(This came from Nigel Pennick's Book "Magical Alphabets" with
the actual meanings for the Oghams being from the Bardic/Druidic
traditions as passed dowm by the Clan Bards of the O'Flahertys).
I use the correspondences that "feel" right to me. You should
do the same. No one set of correspondences is the absolutely
right one to use. The above correspondences just hang together
better in my own mind. The basic technique to reading the tale
of the sticks is to read then deosil (clockwise) and from the
outside to the inside. The "fews" towards the center represent
the future and those towards the outside the past. Any sticks
not on the Wheel are ignored. Crossed sticks conflict. Parallel
sticks compliment or enhance. Sticks laying on Oghams of the
Wheel have combined effects. The interpretation is not hard and
fast. I read the symbols as a "story" that is dynamic. I take
all three divinations together. If they have no correllation at
all, I ignore the results and try again. Sometimes A divination
is not possible. I'll try at least three times to get results.
The relative agreement of each of the Three Wheel/Ogham charts
determines the degree of confidence one can have in the
readings, from utter certainty to total confusion! (reminds me of Sex
for some reason but that's another story!<G> I guess the point is that
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such Powers and their use are not instantaneous or easy to realize
at times. Sometimes its easy and other times impossible no matter
how much you try!<G>) This entire process of interpretation is very
similar to: Palmistry, Tarot, Astrology or Runes. They are all basically
taking seemingly random or (at least) uniquely individualized instances
from a person's life and attempting to give meaning to such events based
upon how they relate to Magickal symbols and patterns. What is actually
occurring is that the left brain is gathering facts from the cast
patterns that configure the mind and Spirit to allow the right brain to
make the "Salmon leap" to intuitive insight or Illumination. This is
Dichetal Do Chennaib or "cracking open the nuts of Wisdom" at its
finest.
After the divination is finished, dismiss your Circle and fold
or erase your casting Wheel or cloth. Store them separately and away
from normal life until they are to be used again. I recommend a wooden
or cedar chest. Use whatever represents peace, quiet and solitude for
you.
O'Dubh : So what have we found from this discussion of Druids, Oghams
and divination? We found that Information exists concerning Druid Oghams
in the ancient 7th and 8th century writings of Irish monks-Druids. We
disovered that Fionn's Wheel can be used as a divination casting cloth
and as a "map" for "Pathworking". We suggested that the Ogham correspon-
dences can identify unique ways to Magickal knowledge and insight. Most
of this information came from oral Druid histories that were finally
written down in the first millenia by the Druid remnant or Culdean
Monks. I admit that some of my presentation has been colored by my
interests in other forms of MAgick that have more readily available
information, such as Runes, Tarot and Astrology. I have also made every
effort to go to an ancient textural source or, at the very least, to a
modern writer basing their work upon ancient verified Druidic works. In
our future investigations into Druidic practices and Magick, I hope to
continue using the same techniques to discover or rediscover the
Mysteries of the inner Druidic Knowledge.
******************************************************************
Key words to look up and understand for this Workshop and the next:
Shamanism, Pathworking, Magick, Oghams, Druids, Culdee,
Celt, Fionn, Archetypes, Jung, Vision Quests, divination,
meditation, Bards, Invocation, Circles, spirit guides.
During the discussion of Fionn's wheel we will primarily address
archetypes, symbols, Magick and Shamanism as well as Pathworking.
CELTIC WORKSHOP (Internet)
This is the second Celtic Workshop. We covered Pathworking using Fionn's
Wheel and how Druids did Magick. (O'Dubhain - 28 Feb 1994)
*SYSTEM* | Switching to Workshop/Seminar 1
Freepowder | heloooooo
O'Dubhain | Hi!
| Looks like just you and me!<G>
Freepowder | how many are we?
O'Dubhain | Hi Tammy!
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Tammy | Hi!!!
| I got my old man to give me 15 minutes.
How generous!
Freepowder | BRB, Hi tammy! Jee-ah guitch <heheheh>
O'Dubhain | What a nice guy!<G>
| Ban jeeah Gwitch!
Tammy | Sorry I won't be able to stay for the
whole thing.
O'Dubhain | heheheheeh!
| That's ok you can download it later
Nan | 'lo everyone
O'Dubhain | Lo Nan!
Sue Thornburg | Hello!!!!!!!!!
Falcon | Hi All
Freepowder | it's obvious that the Celts had a sense of
humor, look at their spelling<G> HI nan, Hi falc
Sue Thornburg | FP> HAHAHAHA
O'Dubhain | Hi Falcon! Hugs Sue
Sue Thornburg | Will this be a formal CO, Odie?
Falcon | Hi O'D
O'Dubhain | Sue>It's semiformal!<G>
Freepowder | hi sue, the word for the day is *maismic*
Wren | Hi, guys
O'Dubhain | It's a workshop!
Freepowder | hi wren
Nan | maismic?
Falcon | <lost>
Sue Thornburg | Oooh, good, I'm wearing half of my tux.
<g>
O'Dubhain | Hi wren
Falcon | Hi Wren
O'Dubhain | Lo Eric Let's get cranking folks
Eric | LO OD
Falcon | What is a workshop?? <otl>
Freepowder | I'll be good, O'd, promise
O'Dubhain | A Workshop is another word for a CO But
since its a WOrkshop it's supposed to be hardere!<G>
Eric | and maismic??
O'Dubhain | ANYway
Falcon | *maismic*
O'Dubhain | The way this works to date is I talk about
some subjects and we discuss them
| then we maybe come up with some new ideas
Sue Thornburg | Sounds terrific. :)
O'Dubhain | It runs like a formal CO to begin Just put
in a ? or a !
Fred McCandless | so toss out an idea
O'Dubhain | If you have a comment or a question
| OK
| First last week
| We talked about Druids Oghams and Divination.
Fred McCandless | ?
O'Dubhain | I placed a bunch of files in the library
16 to be used in the workshop. ok Fred>GA
Fred McCandless | si
O'Dubhain | Fred> Got a question?
Wren | He's gone, O'd
O'Dubhain | anyway the way it works is just like
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that!<G> ok The files give you background on what we discuss. So the
first question I would ask is....
Jehana Silverwing | hi odubh.
| ust
O'Dubhain | Why are we studying these subjects?
| Hi Jehana!
| I mean what are we going to get out of this
| study?
Nan | cause we like to waste $$ on CI$? <GGG>
O'Dubhain | ANyone want to volunteer an opinion?
Falcon | !
O'Dubhain | Falcon>ga
Falcon | I study things because they are there and
I feel I should learn as much as I can
Nan | !
O'Dubhain | Me too Falcon!<G>
| Nan>ga
Nan | on a more serious note....I'm interested
in learning about them because they are part of my heritage and the
heritage of those around me
O'Dubhain | That's a reason I study them too Nan. When
I asked myself these questions I came up with some answers. Why study
Oghams? The answer was because the Druids used them in Magick.
David Pfeiffer | To add more to that Nan, being new here,
I'd like to learn more about the history of the natural beliefs because
they may be the only saving grace of this planet.
O'Dubhain | They are symbols of Magick. David> That's
a good one too.
David Pfeiffer | Sorry to interrupt. <g>
O'Dubhain | The reason I study Magick is just that
that's ok I study Magick of the Earth and of people and of the SPirit to
find the keys to who I am How we relate to each other and to the Planet
Jehana | i agree with david.
O'Dubhain | This is a time that we are all coming
together to save ourselves and our Planet The ancient Wisdom shows us a
Way to do this Jehana
O'Dubhain | We must look within for the Power of
self-awareness For growth and harmony. The Oghams are the roadsigns on
the Ways to this Wisdom
David Pfeiffer | But the whole idea is not for ourselves.
We are just as important as individuals as a leaf is to a tree. One
leaf only holds so the tree may live.
O'Dubhain | One map of this inner journey is Fionn's
Wheel. Right again David. But we must start with ourselves. To have
a tree one must have leaves. and branches and a trunk and roots as well
as Life. It's all got to work together. The purpose of this workshop
tonight is to determine the way that Fionn's Wheel shows us how to
"Pathwork" to knowledge of ourselves.
Nan | ?
O'Dubhain | To show how Druids did this Yes Nan
Nan | i think i know what you mean by "pathwork"
but could you please give a brief definition so that i know we're
thinking the same
O'Dubhain | OK. Pathworking is basically an inner
journey to discover Truths within ourselves
Falcon | ?
Nan | thanks
O'Dubhain | It allows us to tap a "Higher" wisdom To
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know our totems and our Spirit guides. Yes Falcon ga.
Falcon | What is Finion's Wheel?
O'Dubhain | Fionn's Wheel is a representation of the
Oghams laid out in Circles around a center. Like a Native American
Medicine Wheel. It is pretty much the same thing for shamanistic
purposes I uploaded a GIF of it into Lib 16 as FIONNW.GIF
Falcon | thanks
O'Dubhain | On it are the Ogham symbols for our
journey.
Wren | ?
O'Dubhain | Each symbol represents an ability or a
knowledge to be gained or understood, Wren ga
Wren | Is there a book with the diagram? I can't
see GIF's
O'Dubhain | It's in the following books: "The Book of
Ogham" by Edred Thorsson, "The Celtic Shaman" by John Matthews
Jehana | will capture the gif.
O'Dubhain | "The Book of Ballymote" by a 7th century
Culddean Druid<G>, Jehana also in Religion lib.
Jehana | okay, odubh.
Beth Campbell | send 2 what's Palyne? Is this a formal co?
O'Dubhain | yes Beth? The way Druids worked Magick
was by "becoming" or by actually changing reality A classic example of
this is The Song of Amergin the Druid who aided the Gaels in defeating
the Tuatha de Danaans. I quote from his song:
| "I am the wind which breathes upon the sea.
| I am the wave of the ocean.
| I am the murmur of the billows.
| I am the ox of the seven combats.
| I am the vulture upon the rocks.
| I am a beam of the Sun.
| I am the fairest of plants.
| I am a wild boar in valour.
| I am a salmon in the water.
| I am a lake in the plain.
| I am a word of science.
| I am a point of a lance in battle.
| I am the God who created in the head the fire.
| Who is it who throws light into the meeting
| in the mountain?
| Who announces the ages of the Moon?
| Who teaches the place where couches the Sun?
| If not I?
Jehana | I think this song is a teaching ballad.
O'Dubhain | I invoke the land of Ireland!"
Jehana | by the way, whose translation is this?
O'Dubhain | Yes it teaches and it invokes the power of
the Land. This was the translation by Douglas Hyde.
Jehana | okay, just simply because it is slightly
different than the one i remembr.
O'Dubhain | This Spell was used by the Druid to
overcome the winds raised by the de Danaans in their battle for the
Land. It is an example of the way a Druid would work. There are other
tales of shamanistic workings by Druids
Freepowder | ?
O'Dubhain | Among these is "How the Tain was Recover-
ed" Yes FP?
Freepowder | you spoke of becoming, is Amergin actualy
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becoming... those things or, has he been in the past?
Nan | or is it a metaphor?
O'Dubhain | He is actually synchronizing himself with
the spirit that controls these items. It is a series of symbols. It can
be viewed metaphorically. But the fact is it got results. The wind
died and the Gaels landed on Ireland.
Freepowder | ok GA
O'Dubhain | Present day shamans do the same thing.
The story of the Tain was lost and had to be recovered. It had been
written in Oghams on sticks and sent to Italy. None of the bards had a
memory of the entire story, so they sent two men to recover the Oghams,
Senchan and Muirgen. No one knew where to look for these Ogham sticks.
So Muirgen decided to ask Fergus mac Roich (only one problem---Fergus
was dead) So Muirgen slept on his grave and invoked the ghost of Fergus
to reveal the entire story. The Spirit of Fergus appeared in a cloud
and for three days recited the entire epic. Muirgen was able to go back
to the Bards and tell the entire tale. This tale was written down and
we have it today. This is an example of dream traveling to discover
hidden knowledge
Artemisia | ?
O'Dubhain | yes Artemisia?
Artemisia | sorry...computer fart
O'Dubhain | hahahaha! ok
Jehana | <rofl>
Sue Thornburg | <snork>
Freepowder | <LTB>
O'Dubhain | mine was getting constipated!<G>
Freepowder | *maismic*
Jehana | LTB? lettuce, tomato and bacon?
O'Dubhain | haha!
Nan | lol
O'Dubhain | gotta be! <wiping eyes> Anyway the point
is Druids did Magick in a lot of ways that has to be discovered again
from studying these tales. Native Americans pass this kind of know-
ledge down from teacher to student. We are not so lucky. We have to dig
it out of books and figure out the symbolisms!
Sue Thornburg | Unless we have an O'Dubh and a computer.
:)
Artemisia | :-)
O'Dubhain | <taking a bow> But not for speed typing!-
<G> or typos!:(To take a Journey on Fionn's Wheel, I suggest One study
the Paths as outlined in Workshop #1 in Library 16 here as CLTWS1.TXT.
Beth Campbell | <g> Does this mean ... those who don't
respect the past are doomed to repeat it?
Jehana | only if it was a "bad" past <g>.
Freepowder | *maismic*
Sue Thornburg | <chortle>
O'Dubhain | I think we all get our turn in the
"barrel"!<G>
Jehana | sorry.
O'Dubhain | The first Path according to my inner
vision
Beth Campbell | wrong choice of words (sorry) (must be
mercury) going to repeat it
O'Dubhain | and as based upon the Oghams in Nigel
Pennicks "Magical Alphabets" is the Way of Protection. This Way has the
Oghams B L F S N on it from the outside to the center. Each Ogham on
this Path teaches us a Magickal ability. The first Ogham B stands for
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the tree Birch--The White Tree of Purity and Purification.
Jehana | B is birch in the norse runes, too.
O'Dubhain | It is used to protect and Purify us before
we start our journey within. It was the first Ogham ever used. It
warned Lugh that his wife was going to be abducted to the Underworld and
it will serve to show us that we are protected. Life springs anew. To
make such a journey one should meditate and cleanse oneself of all
unclean and impure thoughts.
Beth Campbell | (sounds like Eve and the Apple)
O'Dubhain | Native Americans might do this in a "sweat
lodge". more of a putting away of the mundane bagage of life. baggage
that is !<G> Make an Out of Body (OOBE) type of Journey to a White tree
shining against a totally Black Darkness. Use its image to purge your
mind of distracting thoughts and go to the next level ---The Tree of
Life. Upon this tree one learns to shield unwanted psychic energies and
Magicks. This Ogham is "L" for Rowan. When one is floating in an OOBE
one needs such shielding to travel safely.
Freepowder | ?
O'Dubhain | The next symbol in our journey is --"The
Red Man". FP ga
Freepowder | sould it be too long to cover their
protection in a bit more detail?
O'Dubhain | It would take an entire workshop.
Freepowder | thought so, <G> GA
Artemisia | :-)
O'Dubhain | I'll cover this with a post on the Section
15 message board.
Nan | 15 or 16?
O'Dubhain | The Red Man or the Fear Dearg is a
Supernatural being
Jehana | how about a library file?
O'Dubhain | that is a fire entity. That too Jehana!<G>
He sometimes will rescue us from the Other forces of the Underworld.
His Ogham is the Alder Tree. Fp ga
Freepowder | the whistle tree!<G>
O'Dubhain | Ah! Perhaps the whistle will lead us from
the Underworld!?<G>
Fea'dog | it does me!
O'Dubhain | Red is the color of life and frees us from
conflicts and shields us in our lives. Once we are pure and can shield
and have no inner conflicts, it is time to learn of Magick itself! The
next step or Ogham is The Moon. It is the letter "S" for the White
Willow. This is a form of the Goddess and leads us in Divinations to
guide our future travels on the Wheel. The last or inner Ogham on this
path is "N". It represents the Keys to inner Knowledge that we have
gained. It is the Black Ash.
Rachel | hello
O'Dubhain | It also gives us the insight "as Above so
Below".
Jehana | hello.
Rachel | what is the subject?
O'Dubhain | All our previous insights will aid us in
the physical and the astral worlds. Rachel, this is a Workshop on
Celtic Magick. These keys and knowledge must grow like seeds within us.
In the future, they allow us to work our Power, the Earth's Power and
the Power of the Spirit. This completes the Way of Protection. I
suggest that each of you try such a journey on your own, in a Circle or
Safe quiet place. Learn the symbols for the Oghams from the tables in
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the library (there are about 7 there I think). Shamanistic journeys are
very individualized. Use symbols that have meaning to You. To complete
the journey around Fionns Wheel would cover the entire year and the
Major festivals.
Nan | is that the next workshop, the festivals?
<g>
O'Dubhain | Really project yourselves into the Wheel
and you will find your own inner guide and Truth.
Beth Campbell | (sorry)
O'Dubhain | Nan>I think that'd be a good one The Major
festivals are Imbolc Beltane Lughnasadh Samhain The Solstices and the
Equinoxes Each of these can be found on the Wheel. I hope that I wasn't
too sketchy on this!<G>
Nan | this medium is a bit slow and time
consuming to cover this kind of stuff
O'Dubhain | I know my typing can stand improvement.
Artemisia | You were very good...<sigh> but I don't
think I'm ever going to get this.
O'Dubhain | John Matthews covers shamanism fully in
his Book
Nan | can you pre-type any and use cut and
paste, that might help
O'Dubhain | "Celtic Shamanism". I could but then we
lose spontaneity and dialogue.
Nan | we could still be spontaneous in the
discussion, but the information portion we're all being quiet anyway
O'Dubhain | Hey! Ok! Next time lends itself to
uploading on the festivals. <g> I would like you each to consider
making a shamanistic journey and messaging me about it.
Pietra | ?
O'Dubhain | You might be surprised about what you
find. Pietra ga
Rachel | I have a ?
Pietra | Is this in part where the Masonic orders
"get their symbolism? I noticed a lot of simularities
O'Dubhain | Not sure. Not a Mason, but I wouldn't be
surprised. I'll ask around. <that's my homework>
Falcon | ?
O'Dubhain | Rachel ga ok Falcon ga
Falcon | What is a Mason?
O'Dubhain | Any answers from the group?
Artemisia | I know a little
Pietra | !
O'Dubhain | fire away
Artemisia | My papa was a shriner, very similar They
seem to be exclusive mens orders
Maire | H'lo, O'Dub, et all. Just peeking in to
see the conversation.
Artemisia | the women are part of the outer circle
Pietra | Freemansonry dates itself to the time of
the pharohs
O'Dubhain | Maire>just about done here
Artemisia | The masons did a consecration of a
washington d.c. monunment
Beth Campbell | The masons were the brick layers
Artemisia | and used the earth-air-fire-water symbols
as part of consecrating the cornerstone
Maire | O'Dub> thx. Still monitoring tho. Might
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see something interesting <g>
Nan | isn't there a Masonic forum or section
somewhere, maybe in religion?
Pietra | and even before According to them the
square and compass (symbols of Freemansonry) stand for the masons who
built the pyramids
O'Dubhain | Haven't seen one. George Washington was a
Mason.
Nan | are we finished for the night, it's past
my bedtime <g>
O'Dubhain | And the Pyramid with the Eye on it on the
Great Seal of the US is a Masonic Symbol.
Pietra | They are a one God belief but have lots
of cabalistic degrees
Artemisia | rilly?
O'Dubhain | I declare the Workshop over for the
night!<G>
Beth Campbell | The Masons erected a monument to GW in
Alexandria VA
Nan | look for it on the dollar bill artemisia
O'Dubhain | Let the games begin!<G>
Artemisia | I know it's there...just didn't know it
was masonic
Nan | thanks O'D' i didn't wanna leave and miss
anything :) bye all, see ya next week
Artemisia | night, nan
O'Dubhain | It'll be in the library 16 as CLTWS2.TXT
Mark A. Foster | Did I just miss a conference?
Artemisia | hehehehe
O'Dubhain | Just finished Mark.
Falcon | Night Nan
Mark A. Foster | On what?
Maire | G'night, Nan
O'Dubhain | But we're doing another next week at 10 PM
EST
Pietra | They have associated groups for women and
adolescents.
O'Dubhain | It was on Druid Magick.
Mark A. Foster | What subject?
Beth Campbell | Folks are old if more than twice your age.
Mark A. Foster | Druid magic. Sounds interesting.
Pietra | Falcom>> Are you confused Yet?
O'Dubhain | I think so!<g>
Mark A. Foster | I didn't see an announcement.
Artemisia | <G>, beth
O'Dubhain | It's in the Flash! check it out.
Mark A. Foster | Oh, ok. Where is that?
O'Dubhain | We'll be here everyweek on Mondays at 10PM
Mark A. Foster | Under "special"?
Falcon | Pietra>I will always be confused
Artemisia | gosh...I can feel my visa floating away!
<G>
O'Dubhain | MArk>Are you running WinCim?
Mark A. Foster | 10pm Eastern? DOSCIM
O'Dubhain | yep EST look under Special and Notices
Mark A. Foster | Okay.
Pietra | O'dubh>. yes is forum group -- but the
info you get there
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O'Dubhain | Should be a news Flash there
Pietra | will not tell you about "secret work"
which is the real purpose of FreeMansonry
Mark A. Foster | I just saw it. Never knew that was there.
Thanks.
O'Dubhain | Ta failte romhat!
Mark A. Foster | Nite, y'all.
O'Dubhain | Nite Mark Slan leat!
Artemisia | Yes, and membership is very exclusive...-
even used to be limited by color and financial status
Falcon | Bye Mark
O'Dubhain | Pietra>I plan to find out
Falcon | bye all
O'Dubhain | I have my ways you see!<G>
Pietra | Still is
O'Dubhain | Bye Falcon!! Thanks for coming!
Artemisia | yeah, i figured...just didn't wanna specu-
late
O'Dubhain | Artemisia>How did the healing go?
Pietra | am Member of Eastern Star and Dad is 33rd
degree (the highest)
Artemisia | great! very powerful
O'Dubhain | Great!!!
Artemisia | Thanks for all the encouragement!
O'Dubhain | I was pumping the energy your way!
Artemisia | Thanks! I knew I could feel a little
ooomph!<G>
O'Dubhain | Pietra>Show your dad the tables and get
his thoughts please!:) Artemisia> Glad I could ooomph ya! <G>
Artemisia | hehehehehe
Pietra | I would if we were on speaking terms
however I have the book
O'Dubhain | Pietra>Good enough. Maybe some Druids
hiding in there!?
Artemisia | I wouldn't doubt it!
Pietra | They would say so
Artemisia | it seems like they take from several
traditions
O'Dubhain | Some of these societies formed about the
same time as a rebirth of interest in the occult and Druids.
Pietra | It is interesting that along with some of
the rest of us the inquisistion tortured and put to death all Masons
they could find.
O'Dubhain | Might have members in both paths.
Artemisia | hmmmm
Pietra | they certainly do --I am one
O'Dubhain | Sounds like they were intent on eliminat-
ing anyone that thought for themselves. Might have to talk to my uncles
about this. They are Masons. But those guys are very secretive ! Just
like Druids!<G>
Pietra | Oh good
Artemisia | Yes, they are <G>
O'Dubhain | Anyway, Thanks to all!
Artemisia | Thanks to YOU!
O'Dubhain | Gotta sleep and catch a plane!<G>
Pietra | bye y'all
O'Dubhain | See you all tommorrow! Hugs all around!
Artemisia | tomorrow?
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O'Dubhain | bye sure!
Beth Campbell | Nite O'Dubh!
O'Dubhain | just for chitchat!
Artemisia | Oh.
O'Dubhain | nite Beth Hugs
Artemisia | night, O'D night, everyone
Maire | Night, O'Dub. Happy landings, and hope
your stewardess brings you lots of complimentary drinks<g>
O'Dubhain | <G> Thanks bye all!
CELTIC WORKSHOP 3 - CELTIC FESTIVALS
This an edited transcript of the Third Celtic Workshop presented by
Searles O'Dubhain. The topic for the evening was scheduled to be
the Major Celtic yearly festivals and their hidden meanings. Oghams
were used to attempt to discovery the magick and Mystery within each
festival.
(2-1,Freepowder) Dia duit
(2-11,O'Dubhain) Dia Dhuit!
(2-1,Freepowder) Hi KEN
(2-11,O'Dubhain) Welcome Kenneth 23!!
(2-1,Freepowder) Hi Nan!
(2-11,O'Dubhain) Hiya Nan!
(2-1,Freepowder) Hi bianca
(2-9,Bianca) O'Dub, Wren will join us later
(2-11,O'Dubhain) Tonight we are going to do a Workshop.
(2-29,Nan) 'lo all :)
(2-26,Wren) Hi, guys
(2-2,STUART NICHOLSON) Hi, are you there bianca
(2-11,O'Dubhain) Dia dhuit Wren!
Yo Stuart!
(2-1,Freepowder) too bad CIM doesn't have macro's F10=HI <G>
(2-9,Bianca) hi stuart
(2-17,Kenneth 23)Freepowder> An bhfuil Gaelige agat?
(2-17,Kenneth 23)Hi all!
(2-1,Freepowder) K> no, I think, <G>
(2-11,O'Dubhain) Ta', beaga'inin!
(2-29,Nan) what's the topic tonight?
(2-11,O'Dubhain) Tonight we are going to discuss the major Celtic
festivals
(2-1,Freepowder) ever try to learn gaelic in Las Vegas? craps yes, but
gaelic?
(2-17,Kenneth 23):)
(2-2,STUART NICHOLSON) Bianca are you still there?
(2-17,Kenneth 23)What? You mean there's a "Luxor," and "Aladdin,"
but no "Tara"?!?
(2-11,O'Dubhain) Anyaway I'm the presenter here and everone should
listen up
while I do my pitch!<g>
We are going into formal CO mode.
What will follow is a discussion of Celtic Festivals and
their meanings.
(At this point I lost my telephone connection and had to
log back in.)
(2-29,Nan) must've gotten dumped
(2-7,O'Dubhain) Sorry got knocked off line!<G>
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(2-1,Freepowder)He falls off occasionally, whiskey I think <G>
(2-17,Kenneth 23)O'Dubhain...I thought a renegade god ate you.
(2-7,O'Dubhain) hahahaha!
(2-2,STUART NICHOLSON) hello...
(2-7,O'Dubhain) Nope a phone call from a damsel in distress!<G>
(2-26,Wren) He's baaaack!
(2-7,O'Dubhain) hahahaha ken!<G>
(2-17,Kenneth 23):) Well a worthy cause, at least
(2-1,Freepowder)too much of the creatur?
(2-7,O'Dubhain) I'm back and let's get going before Mercury goes RX
(2-29,Nan) can/did you turn off your call waiting O'D?
(2-7,O'Dubhain) Now as I was saying I'll present then we discuss
use a ? or a ! to ask a question or request
time to make a remark.
(2-30,Jehana Silverwing) hiya, can't stay for long.
(2-30,Jehana Silverwing) but bianca said hi, so here I am *g*.
(2-7,O'Dubhain) Hi Jehana
here we go:
(2-30,Jehana Silverwing) hello odubh...
(2-9,Bianca) hi pietra
(2-9,Bianca) hi jehana
(2-7,O'Dubhain) The Celts celebrated 8 major festivals during the year.
Four of these festivals are associated with the Sun and four are tied to
the phases of the Moon.
I will briefly discuss the Lunar or Fire Festivals first.
The Celtic year is divided into halves marked by the two great fire
festivals of Samhain and Beltane. The period from Samhain to Beltain
is(2-9,Bianca) sid and mindy called "an Ghrian beag" or the "lessor
Sun". The period from Beltain to Samhain is called "an Ghrian mor" or
the "greater Sun". The year is further subdivided by the other two
yearly fire festivals of Imbolc and Lughnesadh.All of the fire festivals
are celebrated at night and are held during the Full Moon. They are
primarily concerned with agriculture, nature, pasturing and livestock.
(2-1,Freepowder)?
(2-7,O'Dubhain) Samhain is the begining of the Celtic year and marks the
time of the Cailleach and the begining of Winter. The doors of the Sidhe
are opened on this night and the veil between the Worlds is thinnest.
This is the night that Druids offered sacrifices (usually the excess
cattle that would form the basis of the Winter's meat stores). This is
the time that the Ancestors walk the Earth once more and cross the thin
veil to visit with the living. Samhain is associated with the province
of Munster and the fortress of Tlachtga.
Beltane marks the begining of Summer and is dedicated to the "Shining
One:" or Bel. Two large bonfires were ignited and cattle were driven
between the fires and into the fields for Summer pasturing. This was
also done to purify them from their long Winter confinement. Men and
women were known to leap through the flames for purification at these
fire festivals. Usually the men first then the women (and after the
flames had diminished!<g>). This night is the time when the Sidhe walk
the land and mortals must overcome their Otherworldly enchantments and
temptations. Beltane was the time when divorces were granted in
Ireland as well as a night of release from the Winter. This festival was
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associated with the province of Connacht and the fortress of Uisneach.
In ancient Ireland an additional two fire festivals were celebrated:
Lughnasadh and the feast of Tara (celebrated every 3 years).
Lughnasadh was the time of the first harvest and a time of games and
competitions. It is associated with the Goddess of Sovereignty. The God
Lugh held this festival to celibrate the efforts of his fostermother
Tailtiu to clear the fields of Ireland for planting. It was also the
time when couples could enter into a "trial marriage" known as a Brehon
wedding. The couple would clasp hands and thrust them through a circular
opening in a special stone, while announcing to the Brehons (judges and
lawyers) that they intended to live together for a one year trial
period. Either party could break the marriage by a public announcement
during the feast of Beltane. This festival lasted for a month! The feast
of Tara was held every three years to distribute laws and gather
records.
An additional festival was added later. This is Imbolc and was held in
Leinster to celebrate the Goddess Brigit. This festival marks the ending
of Winter's grip and the passing of the influence of the Crone or
Cailleach to the Maiden of Spring. It is the time of the first lambs and
of new beginings. Brigit's sacred flame was tended in Leinster in a
sacred center for female Druids. This festival was usually one of the
home and the hearth and was usually presided over by the female head of
the house.
The Sun festivals are MidWinter and MidSummer Solstices as well as the
Spring and Vernal Equinoxes. These festivals mark periods of greatest
imbalance between the Sun and the Moon as well as the periods of
greatest balance. Not much is known about how these Sun festivals were
celebrated by the Celts, if at all. One source I've read claims they
are evidence of Anglo-Saxon influences on later Celtic life and
practice. Most authors state that only the lunar festivals were publicly
celebrated (at least by the Irish). Perhaps the Druids used the Solar
days for Magick and Divination. I am still researching these celebrat-
ions and am not prepared to discuss them in detail this evening.
(2-7,O'Dubhain) Perhaps we should discuss the previous presentation
before we get to the Magickal meaning of the Lunar festivals?
FP>ga
(2-1,Freepowder)you answered it <G>
(2-7,O'Dubhain) Ok I know this was a long spiel but now we can discuss
it.
The following pieces are much shorter with more room for discussion
(2-1,Freepowder)?
(2-7,O'Dubhain) FP>ga
(2-29,Nan) ?
(2-1,Freepowder)the festivals I have herard of samhain etc. are solar?
(2-1,Freepowder)but not agreed upon?
(2-7,O'Dubhain) The Solar festivals are not really ancient Celtic
public festivals.
(2-1,Freepowder)GA
(2-3,Pietra) !
(2-7,O'Dubhain) Samhain is a lunar festival. But More research must be
done on the Solar festivals. ga FP
(2-17,Kenneth 23)Are the Solar festivals mentioned at all in Greek or
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Roman chronicles as Celtic festival days?
(2-7,O'Dubhain) Kenneth >Will get to that question in a minute.
Fp>done?
(2-1,Freepowder)GA
(2-7,O'Dubhain) Nan>ga
(2-29,Nan) two questions, how are the lunar holidays determined
(dates) and what is the connection of
(2-29,Nan) the Sidhe with Beltane?
(2-29,Nan) ga
(2-7,O'Dubhain) Nan>I'll answer those in the following presentation.
Pietra>ga ok
(2-3,Pietra) didn't the people also jump the bonfires?
(2-7,O'Dubhain) Pietra>Yes they did. And sometimes they were sacrificed
in them But that was very long ago. The Human sacrifice was replaced by
animal and agricultural sacrifices.
Kenneth>The Romans influenced the Britains and also the Vikings and
Anglo-Saxons This is where the Sun festivals come from although they
could have been Druid ceremonies closed to the public.
Kenneth>ga
(2-17,Kenneth 23)Hmmm...I see. So as far as readily evident public
festival information goes,
(2-17,Kenneth 23)the Solar festivals are recent -- at least in the sense
of "post-Roman?"
(2-7,O'Dubhain) Kenneth>Yes I believe so. These festivals are part of
the Wiccan year. Because Wicca embraces soo many diff backgrounds and
deities. anyway I'm going to talk a little about the Magickal sig-
nificance of these holidays and festivals now. We will use the Oghams
from Fionn's Wheel to get an inkling of what was really going on during
these festivals. Any other questions before I start?
ok From the "Crane Bag" of Mannanan mac Lyr The Festival of Imbolc
(First Full Moon in Aquarius) The Feast of the Goddess Brigit.
Ogham Symbol "EA":
Koad or Eadha the Sacred Grove
Death (Tarot).
Unity of the Eight Festivals of the Year.
The Wheel of the Year.
forty shades of green.
Interpretation and Meanings:
This is the festival of new beginings. This is the time when most
new life came forth (first shoots of spring, lambs and the childern that
were sired at Beltain). A celebration of the Triple Goddess, showing
the passage of winter and the advent of summer. The Time of the Maiden
who bridges the gap from the Dark Queen of the UnderWorld to the Red
Mother of Life and Plenty. The Mystery here is the unity of Death and
Life through the Promise of the rebirth of the Green World as represen-
ted by Brigit, the Maiden of the hearth, the home, poets and the forge.
Imbolc is the time of divination, augury and seeking of new directions
for the year. I believe that Imbolc is a carry over from an earlier
Goddess religion in Ireland.
Discussion or questions anyone?
(2-1,Freepowder)?
(2-7,O'Dubhain) FP>ga
(2-1,Freepowder)Brigit did poets, who did musicians? <G>
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(2-1,Freepowder)GA
(2-7,O'Dubhain) Well the Dagdha played a mean harp. And Lugh was
multi-talented.
(2-1,Freepowder)LOL
(2-1,Freepowder)no "patron saint" of musicians?
(2-1,Freepowder)GA
(2-7,O'Dubhain) Well Taliesin was the king of Bards And was the greatest
of musicians as well. So he would be your God of Musicians.
(2-1,Freepowder)he was welsh! Amergin maybe? <G>
(2-7,O'Dubhain) Amergin was also a great bard. He seems to be Talies-
in's counterpart. Ok on to Betaine!
From the "Crane Bag" of Mannanan mac Lyr The Festival of Beltain
(First Full Moon after the Hawthorne's bloom) The Feast of Bel and the
twin bonfires.
Ogham Symbol "OI":
Oir Spi'ona'n Eirinen Fair.
Childbirth.
The Spindle of the Wheel.
White or Red.
Interpretation and Meanings:
This is the festival of life. On this day, the sacred fires were lit on
the hill of Tara. Fires were lit on hills across Ireland when the signal
fire was observed until the land was surrounded in a circle of fire.
Beltain marks the begining of summer when the land is filled with
plenty. This a time when the ways between the worlds are open and the
Sidhe are most likely to grant gifts to those who seek them early in the
morning. It is also a time that is central to the entire cycle of
agriculture. It is now when the promise of spring is fulfilled. The
Maypole symbolises the fertility rites of this festival. Strange that
the red and white streamers of the Maypole should remind us of the DNA
Helix of Life. Life is the Spindle and Love is the weave. In Ireland
the people dance around a burning bush in a "serpent" dance. Beltaine is
the time of our maturity and the fulfillment of desires.
Questions or should I go on?
(2-1,Freepowder)?
(2-7,O'Dubhain) FP>ga
(2-1,Freepowder)Bel was the god of the dead?...
(2-1,Freepowder)and this was a festival of life? GA
(2-1,Freepowder)<G> Ok
(2-7,O'Dubhain) There is controversy over whether Belenus is really the
God for whom this festival is named. But Belenus, Bael, Bile and Beil
are all names associted with this festival. Some of theses are Sun Gods
eg "Shining Ones" Irish sources say this that Beltaine really means
Great Fires!<G>
(2-29,Nan) ? Nan>ga
(2-5,JUAN) HELLO EVERYBODY
(2-7,O'Dubhain) Juan Standby please Co in progress
(2-29,Nan) what if there's no Hawthorn around? how do you know when
this festival is?
(2-7,O'Dubhain) Nan>It's commonly called May Day in Western Europe.
That's May 1 or the closet Full Moon to May 1.
(2-29,Nan) ok
(2-7,O'Dubhain) That's the first full moon in Taurus.
(2-17,Kenneth 23)?
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(2-7,O'Dubhain) Kenneth>ga
(2-17,Kenneth 23)Beltane seems to be characterized by masculine symbols
-- was it a special day for men, such as entrance to manhood festivals,
or such?
(2-7,O'Dubhain) Kenneth>It was a day of festivities for both men and
women It's also associated with the first Battle of Moytura. Women and
men both fought in that battle.
(2-17,Kenneth 23)<nod> Was there any particular ascent to adulthood
ritual in Celtic festivities?
(2-17,Kenneth 23)I see...
(2-7,O'Dubhain) All the festivals were used as rites of initiation since
this was a time of gathering of the clans. many times a boy would be
initiated by graduating from warrior training or bardic training he
could then demonstrate his prowess.
(2-17,Kenneth 23)Ah...I see. So anything involving community could be
done on those days (including Bhar Mitzvas :D)?
(2-7,O'Dubhain) Something like that! and also lots of games and
competitions.
(2-7,O'Dubhain) Pressing on here From the "Crane Bag" of Mannanan mac
Lyr
The Festival of Lughnasadh
(First Full Moon in Leo)
The Feast of the God Lugh.
Ogham Symbol "UI":
Uinllean Fea' Ffawyddean Beech or Phagos.
Chieftain.
Magickal Hardness and Resistance.
Ancient Wisdom as a foundation.
Tawny or light roebuck.
Interpretation and Meanings:
This festival is linked to many ancient practices in Ireland. Contracts,
marriages and other binding agreements were made on this day. This is
the day of the Marriage of Lugh. It is also the day when the performance
of the clan chiefs was evaluated and perhaps a new chief was chosen.
This is the time of the great horse fair and fittingly enough the
marriage of the King to the land. This could sometimes involve a ritual
whereby the new king was symbollically mated with a horse, Symbolizing
the Goddess of Sovereignty. The first harvest had already been reaped.
Ogham Symbol "IO":
Pethbol Guelder Rose
The step into the Inner Mysteries.
Pink or Pale.
The dance of life.
The Crane Dance.
Interpretation and Meanings:
Since this festival is linked to the young god Lugh that replaces the
older god Nuada, it is also linked to the mysteries as Lugh is "Samil-
danach" or "multi-talented". It is very possible that a series of
examinations was given to Druidic students on this day, corresponding to
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the series of tests that Lugh had to pass in competitions with the other
Gods before he was admitted to their company. One such contest is in the
throwing of stones or chariot wheels that occurred during the weeks of
this fair. Another is the playing of board games at this time such as
"fidchell", a game played with wooden pieces (possibly Oghams) and
similar we are told to chess. My own opinion is that it was a kind of
divination. The point here being that just as Lugh proved himself worthy
to join the company of the Gods by being "Samildanach", so I interpret
this symbol to imply that new Druids were admitted to the inner
mysteries and Circles by passing their tests during this festival.
(2-7,O'Dubhain) Questions?
(2-17,Kenneth 23)?
(2-7,O'Dubhain) Kenneth!>ga
(2-17,Kenneth 23)Sorry...just one little thing I've always wondered --
Fidchell, and games like it in other celtic groups, are mentioned
frequently in literature and legend. Are there any surviving fidchell
sets? How is information known about the game?
(2-7,O'Dubhain) Kenneth>Not much is known about the game. No sets
survive but it must have been something! Everyone was playing it!<G>
more? ga
(2-17,Kenneth 23)No...that's all, thanks!
(2-1,Freepowder)O'D? GA
(2-7,O'Dubhain) ok
From the "Crane Bag" of Mannanan mac Lyr
The Festival of Samhain
(First Full Moon in Scorpio)
Ogham Symbol "AE":
Amancholl, Mor, Xi, Pe'ine, The Scotch Pine.
Shower of the Way.
Marker of the Ley Lines.
Bringer of Illumination.
The Container of Wisdom,
The Sacred Pine Cone, Buarci'n.
Spirit.
The Sea. Green or Black.
Interpretation and Meanings:
There are many meanings to this symbol. The first is the Sea represen-
ting the darkest depths and also the source of all life. The mystery
here is that as life ends, so it begins in the same place and from the
same source, the Sea (or Otherworld for which it is a symbol). This
celebration honored the Night of the Dead, when the ancestors walked the
Earth once more and the ancient knowledge could be re-acquired. It also
celebrated the mating of the Dagdha with the Morrigan, the Queen of
Death and Darkness, the Washer at the Ford. She gives the Dagdha the
advice to assemble the Aes Dana or skilled ones and to advance upon the
Fomorians at Maige Turedh. The Goddess of War then goes to kill the King
of the Fomorians (Indech mac De Domnann) in his tent at Scetne. The
Second Battle of Maige Turedh (Moytura) is won by the De Danaans on
Samhain. I interpret this story of the Dagdha (The All Father)with the
Goddess of Darkness (The Triple Morrigan) to mean that the will of the
One was united in the Power of Dark and Light to be used during this
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"gray time" of twilight. The Spiritual aspects overcome the Mental and
Physical aspects (the Fomorians and the Firbolgs, defeated in the first
Battle of Maige Turedh) to claim the Land and ALL that is. The victory
of the Spirit assures us that the Wheel will turn eternally and that the
three aspects of humanity are forged together through the two battles of
Maige Turedh. Please read Steve Blamires's excellent interpretations in
his work "The Irish Celtic Magical Tradition". This last marriage of the
Dagdha and Morrigan also represents the mystery of life from death.
I believe that to be the Ultimate Mystery of Druidism or any other
religion.
(2-7,O'Dubhain) questions?
(2-1,Freepowder)?
(2-7,O'Dubhain) Fp>ga
(2-1,Freepowder)did the Irish believe in reincarnation? GA
(2-7,O'Dubhain) Yes they did. They believed that when you were re-incar-
nated, it would hold true to the bloodlines. Like maybe you are your
great grandfather or grand mother re-incarnated!<G>
(2-1,Freepowder)not "karmic" then?
(2-7,O'Dubhain) Not a great deal of karma there. They did hold each
accountable for their life's actions.
(2-1,Freepowder)what about if you are adopted? <VBG>
(2-7,O'Dubhain) he Irish also believed in "fosterage" so that you became
"blood brothers". So I suppose you could re-incarnate in someone else
that way!<G>
(2-1,Freepowder)LOL
(2-7,O'Dubhain) yep.
More questions or What shall we discuss next time?
(2-1,Freepowder)?
(2-7,O'Dubhain) FP>ga you devil!<G>
(2-1,Freepowder)was the Morrigan just death and destruction ...
(2-1,Freepowder)or had she redeeming qualitys?
(2-2,Pietra) celtic Music (lol)
(2-7,O'Dubhain) HAhahaha! She might have played the bones perhaps!<G>
(2-1,Freepowder)ROFL!
(2-2,Pietra) !
(2-7,O'Dubhain) The Morrigan was also the patroness of Magick and
WItches!<G> Pietra>ga
(2-2,Pietra) got another Cd for you Great fire away I declare the
Workshop ended! Thanks for coming you diehards!<G>
(2-29,Nan) thanks O'D! great info see ya next week......if i can
rent a 'puter on the road, sigh
(2-1,Freepowder)good job, as usual! Next time?
(2-17,Kenneth 23)<clapping> Thanks for the presentation! I'm glad I had
the recording option on!
(2-7,O'Dubhain) Ta failte romhat!(you're welcome)
I will post it in the library in the next few days.
(2-29,Nan) what's next week's subject?
(2-2,Pietra) Amam by the Clannad produced by cbs records even has
(2-2,Pietra) the lyrics in Gaelic printed
(2-1,Freepowder)P> ever listen to planxty or de dannan?
(2-7,O'Dubhain) I might touch on Sun festivals and stone circles as well
as passage graves and the Underworld.
(2-17,Kenneth 23)Has human sacrifice been done as a workshop topic?
Esp. symbolic/actual sacrifice of rulers?
(2-29,Nan) bye all, see ya later
(2-2,Pietra) Free>no who does it?
(2-17,Kenneth 23)Bye Nan!
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(2-1,Freepowder)Slan leat Nan
(2-1,Freepowder)P> that's the name of the groups <G>
(2-7,O'Dubhain) Kenneth>Not yet. Slan Nan!
(2-2,Pietra) Free>oops
(2-17,Kenneth 23)That might be a fun topic. Well, fun for us, not for
whoever got sacrificed...
(2-1,Freepowder)P> older more traditional than Clannad...
(2-7,O'Dubhain) Kenneth>It'll take some research to dig out the details
like the Wicker man and other good stuff.
(2-2,Pietra) free> I'm nagging O'Dubh into buying Celtic Odyssey and
(2-2,Pietra) then he'll thank me
(2-1,Freepowder)Enya was IN clannad before she went solo, (useless
trivia)
(2-7,O'Dubhain) Kenneth>Like torturing a volunteer to death to do a
divination.
(2-2,Pietra) free> it's traditional too
(2-7,O'Dubhain) Pietra>I'm going for it just haven't found it yet.
(2-17,Kenneth 23)Enya is part of the Dunnan family, which is most of
Clannad.
(2-1,Freepowder)Music in magick & vice versa, do that O'D!
(2-7,O'Dubhain) FP>Great idea!!
(2-17,Kenneth 23)I was lucky enough to see Clannad in concert last year!
(2-7,O'Dubhain) <----needs to get his Pythagorian stuff from home.
(2-2,Pietra) O'Dubh bbi griosghrua garth 'aicr'
(2-1,Freepowder)P> try the chieftains too.
(2-2,Pietra) ok thanks free
(2-17,Kenneth 23)O'D> I would be more than willing to assist in research
regarding sacrifice, if possible.
(2-2,Pietra) Kenneth >yep says so right here! (in my phamplet)
(2-7,O'Dubhain) Kenneth>Thanks I'll try outlining wwhat i need in a post
to you.
(2-1,Freepowder)P> & the Bothy boys if you like acordian <G>... or was
that Boys of the Lough...hmmm
(2-7,O'Dubhain) Pietra>What is that something about being glad I'm so
sunny when you're near me?
(2-2,Pietra) kenneth > Enya is solo now
(2-17,Kenneth 23)There was a concert w/ the Chieftains and many famous
country/western singers, including Willie Nelsen, Alabama, and others,
which
(2-17,Kenneth 23)showed Country music's Celtic roots.
(2-17,Kenneth 23)p > I know, and I'm sick of waiting for her next album
to come out! (G)
(2-2,Pietra) Thanks I wondered what it meant O'Dubh
(2-17,Kenneth 23)it's been a couple years!
(2-7,O'Dubhain) <_----Thinking about hitting Clancy's in Manhatten.
(2-1,Freepowder)Clancy's are Waaaay Coool!
(2-7,O'Dubhain) Pietra>Are you sure about the spelling?
(2-2,Pietra) O'Dubh > I only tease the people I like Now you're
definitly
(2-2,Pietra) on the way to Clancy's
(2-1,Freepowder)been teaching my Boy Scouts their Irish drinking songs,
will get me in trouble one of these days!
(2-7,O'Dubhain) Pietra>I'll work out the translation later. FP>Yep Tom
Clancy owns the place. What are those scouts adrinkin FP?<G>
(2-2,Pietra) bhi griosghura garth' aicr' gus loinhir ina ciabh mar or
Can see good now I turned the light on
(2-1,Freepowder)O'D how do you find the wood u use in the US? same
trees? close?
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(2-7,O'Dubhain) FP>close to the same trees
(2-7,O'Dubhain) Kenneth>I need to upload a file on the similarities and
the locations. Also had a message about it as well.
(2-1,Freepowder)O'D > water but sometimes I wonder what their parents
think when they come home singing Whiskey you're the Divil!
(2-1,Freepowder)>or wild rover no more!<G>
(2-7,O'Dubhain) Just tell them uisce is Gaeilge for water and sounds
like WHiskey!<G>
(2-7,O'Dubhain) Pietra>will translate later.
(2-7,O'Dubhain) Folks>Gotta see a lady about some hugs!<G>
(2-17,Kenneth 23)Does anyone know of ritual use of intoxicants by the
Celts, aside from alcohol?
(2-1,Freepowder)I can't even find a gaelic to english dictionary here!
(2-2,Pietra) all> i like the music because it strikes a chord inside.
but I don't know the lingo at all
(2-7,O'Dubhain) See you in the Forum; same time next week.
(2-1,Freepowder)K> isn't alcohol enough?
(2-2,Pietra) I think this means we get the brush-off now
(2-7,O'Dubhain) Kenneth>Druids drank a lot of strange stuff.
(2-9,Blood Falcon) Hi all
(2-7,O'Dubhain) might post a few brews!<G>
(2-2,Pietra) S'lain o'Dub
(2-7,O'Dubhain) now now Pietra.
(2-1,Freepowder)thanks again O'D!
(2-1,Freepowder)Slan leat!
(2-17,Kenneth 23)I'd love to hear of 'em!
(2-17,Kenneth 23)Slan leat, O'D!
(2-7,O'Dubhain) I do have to do my gentlemanly duties you know!<G>
Slan Agat!
(2-9,Blood Falcon) Bye O'D
(2-7,O'Dubhain) Beannacht De' is Bande' leat!
(2-17,Kenneth 23)Slan abhaile!
CELTIC WORKSHOP #4 - CELTIC MUSIC
This an edited transcript of the fOURTH Celtic Workshop presented by
Searles O'Dubhain. The topic for the evening was scheduled to be
Celtic Music and Magick in general, the Role of Bards and Druids in
Celtic Music, the Music Ogham - Aradach Fionn, Tree tones and their
musical associations and some example folk songs and their interpreta-
tions.
(2-11,Nan) hi!
(2-8,O'Dubh) I see you found a laptop!<G>
(2-11,Nan) I've got to get used to translating to west coast times <g>
(2-8,O'Dubh) It's like 7 there right?
(2-11,Nan) actually i rented a IIsi (mac)
(2-11,Nan) yep
(2-11,Nan) i decided to go for the color <g>
(2-2,Rilla) Evening!
(2-8,O'Dubh) what sort of work are you doing?
(2-11,Nan) hi n huggs rilla
(2-8,O'Dubh) Hugs Rilla!
(2-2,Rilla) hugs!
(2-8,O'Dubh) Rilla.We are gathering up here.
(2-2,Rilla) mind if I lurk?
(2-8,O'Dubh) No prob
(2-11,Nan) work? well......I'm getting ready to move into my new house
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in June...
(2-8,O'Dubh) Hi LF!
(2-11,Nan) making decisions like carpet, paint etc.
(2-9,Rose) Rose?
(2-8,O'Dubh) Hi Rose!<G>
(2-11,Nan) sorta work sorta not
(2-9,Rose) Hi!
(2-4,Lord Falcon) <bow>Good evening all
(2-11,Nan) hi rose
(2-20,Freepowder) Dia duit all!
(2-11,Nan) hi falcom
(2-2,Rilla) Hi all!
(2-9,Rose) Yes, Hello!
(2-11,Nan) hi fp
(2-8,O'Dubh) Dia duit, a Fhreepowder!
(2-20,Freepowder) oh yeahm hang on
(2-20,O'Ba'n) There, that's better!
(2-8,O'Dubh) Everyone here knows we are gonna do a Workshop, right?
(2-20,O'Ba'n) Ta'
(2-8,O'Dubh) Slainte!
(2-8,O'Dubh) <=====Typing is getting worse instead of better.
(2-20,O'Ba'n) I have a dram o' the creatur right here too! Slainte"
(2-22,Wren) Hi, folks. Dia dhuit.
(2-2,Rilla) Dia dhuit, Wren!
(2-8,O'Dubh) Dia Dhuit, a Whren!<G>
(2-20,O'Ba'n) O'd how do you say hello to a bunch of folks, same way?
(2-22,Wren) Hey Rilla, brought some chocolate chips cookies .... <g>
(2-2,Rilla) ha!
(2-8,O'Dubh) FP>yep!
(2-2,Rilla) <swat!>
(2-2,Rilla) no fair!
(2-2,Rilla) I wont look!
(2-20,O'Ba'n) ok.
(2-8,O'Dubh) well boys and girls shall we start clearing our throats?
(2-22,Wren) ahem
(2-20,O'Ba'n) ARRRGGGHHH, hack hack!
(2-8,O'Dubh) <======listening to the hackers.<G>
(2-9,Rose) Hmmm.
(2-2,Rilla) hehe
(2-2,Rilla) ahem!
(2-2,Rilla) <how's that?>
(2-11,Nan) cough cough
(2-8,O'Dubh) Ok let's get started!
(2-11,Nan) <ptuie> 'scuse me <g>
(2-8,O'Dubh) Before I begin let me say a few words about how the
Workshop is conducted. We will first hear from a presenter, tonight
that is me. If you have a question type in a ? and I will acknowledge
you by tyoing "ga" at and appropriate time. When you have finished your
question type "ga" to let me know that I may respond. When
we are finished I will acknowledge the next questioner in a similar
manner. If you have a comment or additional information to provide
on a topic, please use the "!" to signal me. I will also cycle through
those with comments in a similar manner. If their are no questions at
this point I will begin tonight's presentation.
(2-5,Seanchai) ?
(2-8,O'Dubh) The topics I plan to cover tonight are:
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Music and Magick in general.
Role of Bards and Druids in Celtic Music.
Aradach Fionn, Tree tones and associations
Some example folk songs and interpretations.
(2-8,O'Dubh) Seanchai ga.
(2-5,Seanchai) Patience is a virtue I need to learn in a hurry.
(2-5,Seanchai) I was going to ask, what's tonight's topic.
(2-8,O'Dubh) ok !<G>
(2-5,Seanchai) Ga
(2-20,O'Ba'n) LOL!
(2-11,Nan) lol
(2-9,Rose) ditto
(2-8,O'Dubh) Anyone that has ever done Magick knows that it involves
resonances and associations. Magick has many color associations as well
as musical associations. We have all experienced the magick of music in
contemporary music. Sometimes this can be in the form of attending
a concert, othertimes it can be when we are alone and listening to our
favorites tunes. Modern day religious services take advantage of the
Magick inherit to music to enhance their worship services. This can be
in singing hymns or hearing organ and choral anthems. I'm sure that we
will all agree that music in such sitruarions alters our state of being.
We are uplifted and changed by the ritual music we experience. It
should be no surprise that the ancient Celts used music in a similar
manner. In Morgan Llwellyn's "Druids" we find an example of such a
Druidic use of music in Magick. The chief Druid of a village would
greet the Sun with song and lead the village each day in welcoming the
Sun back from the Underworld. When the Sun set, another farewell song
was enjoined. This practice is still followed by some in Celtic lands to
this day. Examples of such incantations and greetings to the Sun
may be found in the "Carmenica Gadetica" a vast resources of ancient and
rercent Celtic verse and song.
(2-8,O'Dubh) Please pardon the typos!<G> In many Magick systems, Words
of Power using the names of the Gods are used to create resonances
within the Magical Circle so that the Magicians may attain a higher
state of awareness. The use of these words also serves to open the
internal "Power Centers" or "Chakras" of the participants. These
godnames are constructed using the letters of the Magickal alphabets of
the respective Magickal systems as well as the natural tones and the
corresponding resonances that are associated with each letter or symbol.
For example:
YHVH Yud Heh Vahv He
(a Kaballistic godname)
(2-8,O'Dubh) An incantaion of a godname becomes a chant with its own
inherent melody and rhythm. Such sounds generated form an occult
alphabet are thought by Magicians to have inherit Power in their sounds
and to generate Magickal resonances within the Magician and the Circle.
It is my belief that the ancient Celts and Druids used music and sounds
from their secret Ogham alphabet to aid them in working Magick in a
similar manner.
(2-8,O'Dubh) Druidic Bards studied for 15 to 20 years to learn the
epics, chants, spells and histories of their peoples and clans. These
works were memorized exactly and were a requirement for advancement to
a higher or inner level of the Druidic ranks. The works had to be
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rendered with feeling so that the listener would be spell bound and
consequently could relive the event. The Irish Druids had the following
classes of Bards:
Class # of Epics
__________________________________________
Driseg 20 (the Beginner)
Foclaic 30 (Advanced beginner)
Cili 100 (Journeyman)
Anraid 175 (Master/Warrior)
Ollomh 175+ (Doctor/Judge)
(2-8,O'Dubh) Bards learned to play the pipes, the whistle, the harp, the
lyre, the flute, the sistrum and the bodrun among other instruments.
According to Murry Hope these instruments, were used based upon the mood
or tone that the particular Bardic work required. He gives a table of
the following correspondences:
The Flute - Air (later the Organ)
The Harp - Water
The Sistrum - Earth (The Bells or Bodrun)
The Lyre - Fire
Poets and Bards carried branches with bells and amulets attached to
them. A beginner's branch would be bronze, journeymen carried a silver
branch and the Master Bards carried a golden branch. The music of the
bells would announce the Bard's presence and an impending performance.
(2-8,O'Dubh) Nan ga
(2-11,Nan) what's a sistrum?
(2-11,Nan) ga
(2-8,O'Dubh) It's a stringed instrument that one beats I believe.
Anyone got an opinion?
(2-2,Rilla) Ray confirms that.
(2-20,O'Ba'n) ?
(2-2,Rilla) Precursor of the lute maybe?
(2-8,O'Dubh) perhaps.
(2-9,Rose) I understand that one shakes it like Isis does in the
pictures.
(2-22,Wren) Similar to a hammered dulcimer?
(2-8,O'Dubh) That's what I was thinking, Wren.
(2-11,Nan) or a tambourine?
(2-9,Rose) I have a picture of one...
(2-8,O'Dubh) Rose ga
(2-9,Rose) it looks like a tennis racket.
(2-9,Rose) with hooks.
(2-8,O'Dubh) And you beat it right?
(2-9,Rose) I think so.
(2-8,O'Dubh) ok Nan any further questions?
(2-11,Nan) got it, thanks
(2-9,Rose) shake it.
(2-20,O'Ba'n)an ancient metal frame with numerous metal rods that jingle
when shaken, websters.
(2-9,Rose) bravo.
(2-8,O'Dubh) great!
(2-20,O'Ba'n) ?
(2-11,Nan) no, ga
(2-8,O'Dubh) O'ba'n?
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(2-8,O'Dubh) ok let's roll!
(2-20,O'Ba'n) wait
(2-8,O'Dubh) O'ban ga!
(2-20,O'Ba'n) are the instruments dedicated to...
(2-20,O'Ba'n) their various areas based on the tonal range they cover
or...
(2-20,O'Ba'n) the quality of the sound?
(2-20,O'Ba'n) ga
(2-8,O'Dubh) It's the quality of the sound mostly. The same way they
would be scored in an orchestra for instance.
(2-20,O'Ba'n) ok.
(2-20,O'Ba'n) ga
(2-8,O'Dubh) ga
(2-20,O'Ba'n) no, you ga!
(2-20,O'Ba'n) <G>|
(2-8,O'Dubh) My own belief is that the Bards usually accompanied
themselves with the harp as they recited their repertorie. Just as
Oghams were used as keys to memory with verses being linked by assonance
and alliteration, I believe that each Ogham had a unique tone or note
associated with it on the harp. The tone or string was struck as the
Ogham sound was spoken or sung two notes per line. The begining and
ending notes serving to connect each line to the next line in a
continuing stream. In the world of my my imagination I can hear the
tones and words of the Bards echoing as they float upon a wave of melody
acroos the room. The sound reminds me of chanting monks or the
plainsong of worship (similar to modern Anglican or Roman Catholic
Plainsong).
(2-8,O'Dubh) Sean O'Boyle, a late Irish scholar, made an attempt to
interpret "Aradach Fionn" (Fionn's Ladder) as harp tabulature using
Oghams. He suggested that the Irish practice harp that has only 20
strings has a 1 to 1 correspondence to the first 20 Oghams. As far as I
know,no records survived to reach us verifying his theory. It seems to
make sense to me but I only speculate.
(2-8,O'Dubh) A modern work "Trees for Healing" by Chase and Pawlik,
reinforces this belief for me. This book is all about trees, their lore
and their spirits. It describes techniques for meditation to determine
the harmonic resonaces for a variety of trees. I believe that the
ancient Druids also detected certain harmonic tones for each tree and
used then in their Tree Ogham Alphabet. If we use the tones that have
been rediscovered by Chase and Pawlik and combine them with the ancient
chants, incantations and songs of Taliesin and Amergin, we may also be
able to work powerful Magicks. This Magick can take any form from
enchanting an audience to calling the winds. The Greek Bard Orpheus was
able to walk between the worlds in this manner and so can we. I list
the trees and the derived modern tonal correspondences below:
Ogham Old Irish English Musical Note
____________________________________________________
B Beith Birch F
L Luis Rowan C
F Fearn Alder E
S Saille Willow F
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N Nuin Ash G
____________________________________________________
H Huathe Hawthorn B
D Duir Oak F
T Tinne Holly G
C Coll Hazel D
Q Quert Apple. D#
____________________________________________________
M Muin Vine G
G Gort Ivy G
Ng Ngetal Reed F
St Straif Blackthorn B
R Ruis Elder A
____________________________________________________
A Ailim Silver Fir A
O Ohn Furze E
U Ur Heather B
E Eadha White Poplar E
I Ioho Yew F
____________________________________________________
Ch,Ea Koad Grove F
Oi,Th Oir Spindle C
Ui Uilleand Honeysuckle D
Ph Phagos Beech A
Xi Mor The Sea G
(2-8,O'Dubh) Some of these tones were derived by meditation and
resonance, some are based upon the colors associated with the Oghams. My
suggestion is to
(2-11,Nan) ?
(2-8,O'Dubh) find such a tree yourself and to meditate under it. play a
pipe, a whistle or a harp (even a guitar will do in a pinch!<G>) until
you find
(2-22,Wren) ?
(2-20,O'Ba'n)?
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the correct tone for the tree. Other tones will reflect
from the tree. The "soul tone" of the tree will be absorbed and you
will possibly feel a tingle of energy that is released by the Spirit of
the Tree. This experience is somewhat akin to the common belief in
Ireland (even today) that a particularily gifted musician, harper or
piper has been taught by the Sidhe (famed for their enchanted music).
Celts believe in harmony and rightness in all things and particularily
in Nature.
(2-8,O'Dubh) Nan ga
(2-11,Nan) I noticed that many different oghams had the same note...
are these the same notes or are they in differing octaves? ga
(2-8,O'Dubh) The table I presented is not cast in stone!<G>
(2-11,Nan) or even in wood? <G>
(2-8,O'Dubh) The first approach has each ogham on a different tone For
Fionn's ladder for instance. The second approach used meditation
techniques to determine the "soul tones" of the trees Some trees
evidently have a similar feel to them. I think that the table needs
some work myself. Perhaps one of the more musically gifted members
could undertake such a study!
(2-24,da Medic) ?
(2-8,O'Dubh) ?<G>
(2-8,O'Dubh) ga Nan
(2-8,O'Dubh) additional questions?
(2-8,O'Dubh) If not then Wren was next.
(2-20,O'Ba'n) !
(2-11,Nan) no, i think wren had some though
(2-8,O'Dubh) Wren ga
(2-22,Wren) Already answered, thanks. Gotta go, g'nite!
(2-8,O'Dubh) Sla'n Wren!
(2-11,Nan) g'night wren
(2-8,O'Dubh) O'ba'n ga
(2-20,O'Ba'n) need to have the transmogrification of what tree is which
out west for me to do it...
(2-20,O'Ba'n) but with that I'd love to do the tree/tone thing!
(2-8,O'Dubh) Ok I'll put a table in the library this week.
(2-20,O'Ba'n) GA
(2-24,da Medic) does this explain the prevalence of willow/oak in celtic
magicks? ga.
(2-20,O'Ba'n) Cool!
(2-8,O'Dubh) da Medic ga
(2-24,da Medic) sorry, saw the ga.
(2-8,O'Dubh) Yes it does to some extent. I have entire books on nothing
but healing properties of trees. I'm sure Druids knew much more.
(2-11,Nan) ?
(2-8,O'Dubh) Nan ga
(2-11,Nan) could you please post a bibliography of some of those
books??? (pretty please?)
(2-11,Nan) ga
(2-8,O'Dubh) Ok will do that as well this week!<G>
(2-20,O'Ba'n) yes! yes!
(2-8,O'Dubh) Now to continue...
Some of this Magick comes down to us today in the form of
folk songs still sung in the outer reaches of Ireland and the British
Isles. Such a song is the "Padstow May Song" from Padstow, Cornwall
(in part):
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"Unite and unite and let us unite
For summer is acome unto day
And whither we are going we will all unite
In the merry morning of May."
"I warn you young men everyone
To go into the greenwood and
fetch your May home."
"Arise up Mr. _______ and joy you betide
And bright is your bride that lies
by your side."
"Arise up Mrs. _______ and gold be your ring
And give to us a cup of ale the merrier
we shall sing."
"Arise up Miss ______ all in your gown of green
You are as fine a lady as wait upon the Queen."
"Now fare you well, and we bid you
all good cheer
We call once more unto your house
before another year."
(2-8,O'Dubh) I interpret this song to mean this:
This song is sung on Beltaine and is said to
charge the atmosphere of the festival. It
symbolizes the marriage of the youth with
the land. (Unite and unite and let us unite)
It also adresses 3 individuals: A man, a
woman and a Maiden in a green gown
(who represents Nature).
This song is sung around the May Pole or
May bonfires in the evening (and prior to
anyone escaping to the outer folds of
darkness for an evening of bliss <g>).
................................................................................
3171
(2-8,O'Dubh) Another ancient folk song that has hidden meanings of
Magick is the song "Green Grow the Rushes":
" One of them is all alone and
ever more shall be so.
Two of them are lily-white boys
all clothed all in green Oh!
Three of them are strangers o'er the
wide world they are rangers.
Four it is the Dilly Hour when
blooms the Gilly Flower.
Five it is the Dilly Bird that's
seldom seen but heard.
Six is the Ferryman in the boat that
o'er the river floats, Oh!
Seven are the Seven Stars in the Sky,
the Shining Stars be Seven, Oh!
Eight it is the Morning's break when
all the World's awake, Oh!
Nine it is the pale Moonshine,
the shining Moon is nine, Oh!
Ten Forgives all kinds of Sin,
from Ten begin again, Oh! "
(2-8,O'Dubh) This song can be interpreted to mean:
1. There is One Power.
2. The God has two aspects (Light and Dark).
3. The Celts are a wadering people with
the sacred number of "3".
4. The 4th Ogham is the Alder sacred to Bran
the Blessed and his sister Branwen "the
Gilly Flower".
5. The Wizard Merlin as well as the sacred
number of the Celtic Gods (not to mention
the number of points on a Pentagram).
6. Keridwen's Coracle that ferries us to
the Underworld.
7. The sacred number of sea gods and the stars
in the crown of Arianrhod.
8. The number of judgement or resurrection.
9. The Triple Moon Goddess Thrice emphasized
The number of Priestesses that guard the
Cauldron of Rebirth.
10.The necessity to find our "True Selves"
in order to understand the Inner Mysteries.
The endless cycle of death and rebirth.
(2-8,O'Dubh) Everone still awake?<G>
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(2-20,O'Ba'n) ?
(2-2,Rilla) <I am!>
(2-8,O'Dubh) O'Ba'n ga!
(2-20,O'Ba'n) this is your interpretation?
(2-20,O'Ba'n) GA
(2-8,O'Dubh) It is also Murry Hope's interpretation. I have seen a
different version of this song.
(2-20,O'Ba'n) <patting self on back> suits me! GA
(2-8,O'Dubh) that is used by OATh coven and had hoped that perhaps they
would be here tonight.
(2-24,da Medic) !
(2-8,O'Dubh) da Medic ga
(2-24,da Medic) Cunningham also had summat similar ga.
(2-8,O'Dubh) Which book?
ga
(2-24,da Medic) Not sure, will check & advise, methinks in Earth Air
Fire water ga
(2-8,O'Dubh) Ok I have that one here will check in a min. let's finish
up a bit first!
(2-8,O'Dubh) Perhaps some of you have some ancient or even modern Celtic
folk songs that you would like to share with us this evening? You could
enter them here and we could discuss them in detail or maybe just take
them to our hearts and embrace their inner messages (for Celtic Music is
a music of the Heart and Soul). I know that many of you are very into
Celtic Music. I'd like to have each of us contribute the names and
titles of our favorite performers and songss.
(2-8,O'Dubh) My favorite song is the "Rising Of the Moon" by the Clancy
Brothers and Tommy Liam.
(2-24,da Medic) !
(2-8,O'Dubh) da Medic ga
(2-24,da Medic) Joe doughterty's lament, black 47
(2-24,da Medic) ga
(2-8,O'Dubh) ok ! Others?
(2-20,O'Ba'n) <embarrased> all mine deal with young maidens getting
taken advantage of or with drinking, mostly poiti'n (e.g.Cruiscean lan)
(2-11,Nan) !
(2-8,O'Dubh) hahaha LOL O'Ba'n !!
(2-20,O'Ba'n) !
(2-8,O'Dubh) O'Ba'n ga
(2-26,Adam) ?
(2-11,Nan) there are sooooo many i can't chose a favorite, but one of
the more interesting is "the Tain" by Horselips ga
(2-8,O'Dubh) neat nan!
(2-20,O'Ba'n) Do you know Ben phagin? I have it but no translation, also
the well below the valley o!
(2-8,O'Dubh) Most Celtic songs I've heard always have a hidden meaning
(2-20,O'Ba'n) GA
(2-8,O'Dubh) un minuto OB!
(2-8,O'Dubh) Adam question? ga
(2-26,Adam) OD, I lost some of your send :P Which is your favorite
song?
(2-8,O'Dubh) Adam> My favorite song is the Rising of the Moon. by the
Clancy Brothers and Tommy Liam.
(2-24,da Medic) !
(2-20,O'Ba'n) O'flaherty's drake!
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(2-26,Adam) thanks :)
(2-8,O'Dubh) OB>Have that one as well.
(2-8,O'Dubh) OB ga
(2-24,da Medic) gotta go do the work thing-Blesed Be! ga
(2-20,O'Ba'n) that one is all about english occupation and resistance as
related to a duck <G>
(2-11,Nan) lol
(2-8,O'Dubh) OB>I know it well (it's about a goose I thought)
(2-20,O'Ba'n) how 'bout 5 (or 7) nights drunk!
(2-11,Nan) ?
(2-8,O'Dubh) But it's really about a man that was killed by the
English. They had to sing it in riddles to avoid being hanged.
(2-20,O'Ba'n) O'D> and how we has plenty of relatives to take up the
fight!
(2-8,O'Dubh) That's right. I am reading Trinity right now. about the
fight for home rule.
(2-8,O'Dubh) more favorites out there?
(2-4,Da Shad) OD, went to an Irish festival this weekend...
(2-2,Rilla) <great book!>
(2-4,Da Shad) and was really shocked at how strong a presense that the
IRA had there, several booths for signing petitions and sending money to
the IRA. Pledges even!
(2-20,O'Ba'n) "bad luck to the savage to grease his white cabbage that
wantonly murdered me beautiful drake" BTW Drakes are male ducks...
(2-20,O'Ba'n) Ganders are male geese <G>
(2-11,Nan) <---going to the Chieftans next w'end <VBG>
(2-20,O'Ba'n) <green>
(2-8,O'Dubh) Da Shad>They need to do something settle the issues up
there.
(2-8,O'Dubh) OB>Yer right yer scoundrel.
:P~
(2-8,O'Dubh) Nan>great!
(2-8,O'Dubh) Any ideas about next week's Workshop?
(2-4,Da Shad) If the IRA really wanted to get the brits out...
(2-8,O'Dubh) Hint hint hint!
(2-4,Da Shad) they just need to blow up the shipyards in Northern
Ireland.
(2-20,O'Ba'n) I spoke to an Irishman who was probably in the IRA
since he denied it...
(2-4,Da Shad) Once there is no more economic value in northern ireland-
...
(2-11,Nan) how about a workshop on stone circles etc.
(2-4,Da Shad) there owuld be no more need for the brits to keep troops
there.
(2-20,O'Ba'n) his theory was for the Brits to just pull out, I said
"bloodbath would follow", he said...
(2-8,O'Dubh) Nan> Great idea!!
(2-4,StonedAgain) Just call me stonie! (g)
(2-20,O'Ba'n) yes for 3-5 yrs then it would settle down and achieve
normalcy with the rest of Ireland
(2-11,Nan) is this wkshp officially over? (loggin on long distance
here)
(2-20,O'Ba'n) one would guess <G>
(2-8,O'Dubh) yes Nan we're done for the night.
(2-2,Rilla) Nice job, Odie!
(2-4,Shadow Hawk) Gee, didn't realize that there was a workshop going
on, sorry.
(2-2,Rilla) <impressed>
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(2-8,O'Dubh) Thanks Rilla!<G>
(2-11,Nan) thanks for another great one O'D', see y'all next week!
(2-8,O'Dubh) Sla'n Nan!
(2-11,Nan) bye
(2-8,O'Dubh) Ta failte romhat!
(2-2,Rilla) night Nan~!
(2-20,O'Ba'n) gabhaim buiochas, O'Dubh
(2-20,O'Ba'n) Slan nan!
(2-20,O'Ba'n) did I get that right O;d?
(2-8,O'Dubh) OB>A Gaeilge/Bearla dictionary is a dangerous thing to
have!
(2-20,O'Ba'n) ROFL! TOO RIGHT!
(2-20,O'Ba'n) do you know the tune well below the valley?
(2-2,Rilla) OB> are you a Bard?
(2-8,O'Dubh) OB> no
(2-20,O'Ba'n) R> wannabe
(2-2,Rilla) do you do music?
(2-20,O'Ba'n) I suspect that has all kinds of hidden meanings,
will send in msg so you can figger it out <G>
(2-26,Adam) OD, I enjoyed sitting in on the workshop :)
(2-26,Adam) it was my first in this forum.
(2-20,O'Ba'n) R> *I* play Feadog! (tinwhistle)
(2-8,O'Dubh) Adam>Thanks for coming!
Go raibh maith agat!<G>
(2-20,O'Ba'n) pleased to have you Adam!
(2-2,Rilla) oh!
(2-2,Rilla) neat!
(2-15,SCOTT ZAGER) M
(2-8,O'Dubh) OB> I bet rising Of the Moon Is great on the tin whistle.
My daughter plays it on her flute.
(2-20,O'Ba'n) R> AND it's a grand Irish voice I';m havin' <laughing
hysterically>
(2-8,O'Dubh) Rilla> Guess what?
(2-2,Rilla) I saw all kinds of cool stuff in the Lark in the Morning
catalog
(2-2,Rilla) tin whistles and ancient instruments...
(2-2,Rilla) they were really expensive though
(2-8,O'Dubh) At my daughter's Episcopal Church this weekend they are
going
to have a shamnistic dancer!<G>
(2-20,O'Ba'n) O'd, it's ok but fenian men is better
(2-2,Rilla) OB> voice??? I've never HEARD it...so I wouldnt know <G>
(2-8,O'Dubh) O'B>Methinks I like the Men of the West better.
(2-2,Rilla) OD> really?
(2-20,O'Ba'n) <singing> "the lark in the morning she whistles and she
sings
and she flys across the meadow with the dew all on her
wings"
(2-2,Rilla) cool!
(2-2,Rilla) <smile> very nice!
(2-2,Rilla) Now where's the TAPE?
(2-2,Rilla) or WAV file?
(2-2,Rilla) hehehe
(2-8,O'Dubh) Yep Rilla>She's gonna be raising a Christian Power Cone I
guess!<G>
(2-20,O'Ba'n) I have a tape, marty Burke, must make a copy & send it to
you O'd
(2-2,Rilla) OD> Power is Power <G>
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(2-2,Rilla) I learned all I know in High Mass <G>
(2-4,Shadow Hawk) Hmmm, OD, that's MUCH too phallic a symbol for
christians
to raise!
(2-4,Shadow Hawk) How high were you in mass, rilla?
(2-20,O'Ba'n) Bonewits has a lot on that, rituals VERY similar
(2-8,O'Dubh) I must be there to make sure they don't fry themselves!<G>
(2-2,Rilla) SH> heheheh
(2-4,Shadow Hawk) (snicker)
(2-2,Rilla) o/~ memories o/~
(2-2,Rilla) OD> make em ground!
(2-8,O'Dubh) "O the risin o the Moon
the risin o the Moon
Many a pike was a flashin"
(2-2,Rilla) what are we doing for Beltaine?
(2-8,O'Dubh) "by the Risin o the Moon!"
(2-26,Adam) y'all, I got to leave the room now...
(2-4,Shadow Hawk) Rilla, we be raisin a cone of power (g)
(2-2,Rilla) SH> did Sz tell you that I am definitely coming to Fla?
(2-26,Adam) I am talking with a very dear friend...
(2-8,O'Dubh) I'm heading to OATh for Beltaine if they'll have me.
(2-2,Rilla) SH> a raisin?
(2-2,Rilla) <G>
(2-2,Rilla) oh!
(2-4,Shadow Hawk) Bye Adam!
(2-2,Rilla) lucky you!
(2-26,Adam) thanks again :) MP
(2-4,Shadow Hawk) No she didn't Rilla
(2-8,O'Dubh) Sla'n Adam!! Next week and check library 16 out!
(2-26,Adam) I have been, OD :)
(2-2,Rilla) SH> thought we could all stay at the Hyatt..under the
waterfall!
(2-2,Rilla) <G>
(2-8,O'Dubh) Great!!
(2-2,Rilla) night Adam!
(2-8,O'Dubh) Beannacht leat!
(2-2,Rilla) nice to see you again!
(2-4,Shadow Hawk) Rilla, if you want, I can stay down all night....
(2-4,Shadow Hawk) I have my own scuba equipment (g)
(2-2,Rilla) hahahahahahah....an extra set??
(2-8,O'Dubh) OB>BTW what was that first thing in that post you sent me?
(2-4,Shadow Hawk) I would bring an octopus for you.
(2-2,Rilla) time for me to go too folks...
(2-8,O'Dubh) Sounded like "Quiet child"
(2-2,Rilla) Odie> thanks!!!
(2-2,Rilla) this was wonderful!
(2-4,Shadow Hawk) Nite Rilla
(2-8,O'Dubh) or listen up kiddies!
(2-8,O'Dubh) Rilla no prob. A labor of love!<G>
(2-2,Rilla) <G>
(2-2,Rilla) it shows
(2-8,O'Dubh) Hugs!
(2-20,O'Ba'n) "Come and tell me sean o'ferrel, tell me why you hurry
so..."
got me goin o'd, "is there a bathroom on this floor"
(2-8,O'Dubh) no not that one
(2-20,O'Ba'n) (had to go change a diaper, yuck)
(2-8,O'Dubh) the one where the arch Druid said
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(2-20,O'Ba'n) oh! hang on ...
(2-8,O'Dubh) The reply was "He is the Father".
(2-8,O'Dubh) "Hush me Buch all hush and listen and
his cheeks were all a glow!"
(2-20,O'Ba'n) Can't find it right now, was supposed to say "hush
children"
and "yes father"
(2-8,O'Dubh) "I bear orders from the captain, get you ready quick and
soon,
for the pikes must be together"
(2-20,O'Ba'n) "I bear orders for the captain get ye ready wuicka nd
soon...
(2-8,O'Dubh) "by the Risin o the Moon!"
(2-20,O'Ba'n) wuicka? a new religion? <G>
(2-4,Shadow Hawk) Wuicka-Wombat wicca (g)
(2-8,O'Dubh) OB>Great I thought it said "Quiet child and He is the
Father!"<G>
(2-20,O'Ba'n) O'd >LOL!< do you know the wearin' of the green? same
tune.
(2-8,O'Dubh) Yes!! "They're hangin men and women for the Wearin o the
Green!"
(2-20,O'Ba'n) a gaeilge/bearla dictionary is a dangerous thing. <G>
(2-8,O'Dubh) hahahahaha!
(2-20,O'Ba'n) BTW how do you say Andrew jacob in gaelic?
(2-20,O'Ba'n) my eldest <G>
(2-8,O'Dubh) <=====not a clue.
(2-8,O'Dubh) I'll ask in FLEFO!
(2-20,O'Ba'n) nuts.
(2-20,O'Ba'n) my middle is Michilene Og <G> (sp?)
(2-20,O'Ba'n) flefo?
(2-20,O'Ba'n) son that is
(2-8,O'Dubh) BTW
Conor mac Nessa from the Tain was Called Conor son of
Nessa
but Nessa was his Mother!<G>
(2-20,O'Ba'n) Really!
(2-8,O'Dubh) yeppers!<g>
(2-20,O'Ba'n) were they matrilineal?
(2-20,O'Ba'n) :0
(2-8,O'Dubh) They were bilineal!<G>
(2-8,O'Dubh) Mostly the fathers side though!
(2-20,O'Ba'n) LOL!
(2-8,O'Dubh) However they did marry the Picts
and made them agree to trace lineage on the Mother's
side!<G>
(2-20,O'Ba'n) I heard somewhere they were matrilineal, since they were
quite open sexualy
(2-20,O'Ba'n) <G>
(2-8,O'Dubh) The women had a lot of different partners.
and the men went both ways
if you can believe a lyin Roman that is!<G>
(2-20,O'Ba'n) yup, so how do you know WHO your father is? <VBG>
(2-8,O'Dubh) Simple!! Yer da's the one that wins the fights!<G>
(2-20,O'Ba'n) the Romans were...uh... a little...ethnocentric? <G> >LOL!
(2-20,O'Ba'n) have you got any music by planxty, or dedanan?
(2-8,O'Dubh) OB.No I wish I did though.
(2-20,O'Ba'n) Great stuff, traditional.
(2-20,O'Ba'n) or Shanachie records, mail order, HoHokus (?) NJ
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(2-20,O'Ba'n) they have an excellent Celtic catalog
(2-8,O'Dubh) that's Hoboken and it's close to me now!
(2-20,O'Ba'n) if you can't find them find a Ladysmith Black Mombasa
record and ck the pub, that's them
(2-8,O'Dubh) ok bro thanks!<G>
(2-20,O'Ba'n) those are the guys that backed up paul simon on graceland
(At this point we all retired to the VB&G for some shots o Uisce
Beatha!<g>)
................................................................................
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Celtic Worshop #5 - The Celtic Otherworld
This is the transcript of the fifth Celtic Workshop - The Celtic
Otherworld. We engaged in a brief period of socialization before and
after the conference. I include that here to give an idea of the spirit
and atmosphere with which everyone approaches the task at hand!<G>
......Searles
(2-2,Freepowder) Dia duit aNhan!
(2-2,Freepowder) Dia duit aShearles!
(2-5,Nan) huh? <g>
(2-2,Freepowder) hello, in Ir. Gaelic
(2-5,Nan) ahhhh, thanks
(2-6,O'Dubhain ) Dia Dhuir, a Shean!
(2-5,Nan) hi O'D
(2-6